10 ms·

Back around 1960, when I was eight and my little sister was six, we went with our dad to a chess tournament at the Mechanics' Institute in San Francisco. [1] O

Back around 1960, when I was eight and my little sister was six, we went with our dad to a chess tournament at the Mechanics' Institute in San Francisco. [1] Of course if you're six and eight and not really into chess, nothing could be more boring. So we asked Dad if we could do something else. He gave us a few nickels and quarters and said "sure, how about riding the cable cars and go see the town?" So we did! It was the most awesomest thing ever. We rode every cable car we could find, walked around town and saw the sights. The best part was when we found a street with our last name on it! Everyone was nice. The cable car operators saw that we were a couple of kids riding around on our own, so they showed us how the grip and the brakes worked, pointed out interesting things to see, and made sure we knew how to ride safely - even when we were sitting on the outside of the cable car kicking our feet. We forgot to ask for lunch money, so when we got back to the chess club as Dad was finishing his games, he took us out for a bite to eat and we told him all the stories of our adventure. What a great day! [1] https://chessclub.org https://chessclub.org

gwatch 9y ago
This won't happen today in San Francisco city, because of decrease in social capital. I live downtown and I will not anyone's kids to wander around like that. First, you'll be lucky if MUNI driver is even remotely friendly, then there are druggies on the street, and so on. Illegal immigration, homelessness fueled by liberal/leftist policies, crime, gangs, drug trade have turned the city into a place quite unrecognizable compared to 1960. Leftism is a cancer, and a road to third world culture, paved by good intentions.
- isolli 9y ago
  I would say your fears are the real problem here.
- tanto 9y ago
  Just checked your other comments. You really seem to HATE "leftism". You really should think about the fact that you are calling the political direction of many other people "cancer"
  - pamqzl 9y ago
    That's pretty common on both sides of politics these days, sadly.
    - EliRivers 9y ago
      both sides I think that's a big part of the problem right there. Politics doesn't have two sides; it's got far more dimensions and nuances than that, but in some cases it's been turned into a brutal, hatred-prone "us and them" of a ridiculously simple and inflexible two tribe system.
- devwastaken 9y ago
  >Illegal immigration, homelessness fueled by liberal/leftist policies, crime, gangs, drug trade have turned the city into a place quite unrecognizable compared to 1960. Sounds like something that should be backed up by a data point if you're looking to contribute something to the discussion. >Leftism is a cancer, and a road to third world culture, paved by good intentions. You've given exactly one point, with no references. When you jump to extreme conclusions such as the one you're making, that undoubtably creates a 'cancer' you're speaking of because it puts down any intelligent discussion. Without that, how can you or I be informed? I would argue that extremes such as that are what contribute to a political climate where its more important what party or political idealogy you belong to, than what you're actually saying.
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    > Sounds like something that should be backed up Why? People state their opinions and experiences on HN all the time without such a requirement.
    - falsedan 9y ago
      Because this one vilifies a large group of people based on their political preferences; and politics is basically a battle to see whose opinion will be reflected in reality. "language X is better than Y" is an opinion we accept at face value without sources, since it doesn't affect users of language Y, and has limited impact if it's wrong. Comparing a political stance to a disease does affect the users (implies they're 'sick' and need treatment) and has a big impact if it's wrong (and the non-leftism policies get put into place). Compare "Perl is better than PHP" to "PHP is the brain tumor of server-side web languages". Plus: there's no indication of which policies have caused this situation, so it's presumptuous to claim they're caused by leftism.
      - Chris2048 9y ago
        > vilifies a large group of people based on their political preferences If I say Marxism is evil, aren't I also vilifying subscribers to that philosophy? That's fine, since it's a choice; both to take ideological criticisms personally, and to subscribe to it in the first place. > Comparing a political stance to a disease does affect the users I can't see how.
- galfarragem 9y ago
  Translating parent comment and playing devil's advocate: What did happen in the western world that made parents not allowing their kids to wander around? He proposed one explanation in a contrived way: leftist politics. Instead of mindless downvoting, how would you explain it?
  - DanBC 9y ago
    > Instead of mindless downvoting, how would you explain it? Or how about don't feed the trolls?
  - WillPostForFood 9y ago
    General increase in risk aversion. Same reason there are seat belt laws, helmet laws, firecrackers are illegal, you have to take your shoes off to get on a plane, lawn darts are banned, and people fear second hand smoke. To tie it back to the parent comment, there is data that shows more individualistic people take more risks, so perhaps it is tied to the decline of individualism, and religion. Regarding kids specifically, people use to have more, so they would learn that they are pretty durable after raising a few. When you only have one, all your eggs are in one basket, so there is a greater tendency to overprotect.
    - galfarragem 9y ago
      Doesn't your explanation corroborate the parent comment? Individualism and traditional families are more correlated with right-wing policies.
      - WillPostForFood 9y ago
        Parent, or parent-parent? I'd put "safety" laws on the left side of the political spectrum, so decline in individualism & religion would correlate to more safety laws.
    - mathw 9y ago
      Aren't individualism and religion opposing philosophies? Most religions demand conformity.
- orf 9y ago
  > because of all these problems caused by the cancerous lefties! "You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did." Yeah. Cancerous lefties indeed.
  - wholinator 9y ago
    Do you have a source for that quote? I'd be very interested in reading the rest of whatever that is.
    - cholantesh 9y ago
      Interview conducted by Dan Baum for an article in Harper's from '94: https://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/legalize-it-all/ https://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/legalize-it-all/
- HelloNurse 9y ago
  The attitude of accepting the status quo, blaming someone, and proudly doing nothing is far more politically "cancerous" than any misguided policy. Can't you think of ways to increase the "social capital"? Don't you share the good intentions that, as you admit, inspired a long period of "leftist" Californian governments?
- sctb 9y ago
  > Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. > We ban accounts that use Hacker News primarily for political or ideological battle, regardless of which politics they favor. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

gwatch 9y ago

This won't happen today in San Francisco city, because of decrease in social capital. I live downtown and I will not anyone's kids to wander around like that. First, you'll be lucky if MUNI driver is even remotely friendly, then there are druggies on the street, and so on. Illegal immigration, homelessness fueled by liberal/leftist policies, crime, gangs, drug trade have turned the city into a place quite unrecognizable compared to 1960. Leftism is a cancer, and a road to third world culture, paved by good intentions.

isolli 9y ago
I would say your fears are the real problem here.
tanto 9y ago
Just checked your other comments. You really seem to HATE "leftism". You really should think about the fact that you are calling the political direction of many other people "cancer"
- pamqzl 9y ago
  That's pretty common on both sides of politics these days, sadly.
  - EliRivers 9y ago
    both sides I think that's a big part of the problem right there. Politics doesn't have two sides; it's got far more dimensions and nuances than that, but in some cases it's been turned into a brutal, hatred-prone "us and them" of a ridiculously simple and inflexible two tribe system.
devwastaken 9y ago
>Illegal immigration, homelessness fueled by liberal/leftist policies, crime, gangs, drug trade have turned the city into a place quite unrecognizable compared to 1960. Sounds like something that should be backed up by a data point if you're looking to contribute something to the discussion. >Leftism is a cancer, and a road to third world culture, paved by good intentions. You've given exactly one point, with no references. When you jump to extreme conclusions such as the one you're making, that undoubtably creates a 'cancer' you're speaking of because it puts down any intelligent discussion. Without that, how can you or I be informed? I would argue that extremes such as that are what contribute to a political climate where its more important what party or political idealogy you belong to, than what you're actually saying.
- Chris2048 9y ago
  > Sounds like something that should be backed up Why? People state their opinions and experiences on HN all the time without such a requirement.
  - falsedan 9y ago
    Because this one vilifies a large group of people based on their political preferences; and politics is basically a battle to see whose opinion will be reflected in reality. "language X is better than Y" is an opinion we accept at face value without sources, since it doesn't affect users of language Y, and has limited impact if it's wrong. Comparing a political stance to a disease does affect the users (implies they're 'sick' and need treatment) and has a big impact if it's wrong (and the non-leftism policies get put into place). Compare "Perl is better than PHP" to "PHP is the brain tumor of server-side web languages". Plus: there's no indication of which policies have caused this situation, so it's presumptuous to claim they're caused by leftism.
    - Chris2048 9y ago
      > vilifies a large group of people based on their political preferences If I say Marxism is evil, aren't I also vilifying subscribers to that philosophy? That's fine, since it's a choice; both to take ideological criticisms personally, and to subscribe to it in the first place. > Comparing a political stance to a disease does affect the users I can't see how.
galfarragem 9y ago
Translating parent comment and playing devil's advocate: What did happen in the western world that made parents not allowing their kids to wander around? He proposed one explanation in a contrived way: leftist politics. Instead of mindless downvoting, how would you explain it?
- DanBC 9y ago
  > Instead of mindless downvoting, how would you explain it? Or how about don't feed the trolls?
- WillPostForFood 9y ago
  General increase in risk aversion. Same reason there are seat belt laws, helmet laws, firecrackers are illegal, you have to take your shoes off to get on a plane, lawn darts are banned, and people fear second hand smoke. To tie it back to the parent comment, there is data that shows more individualistic people take more risks, so perhaps it is tied to the decline of individualism, and religion. Regarding kids specifically, people use to have more, so they would learn that they are pretty durable after raising a few. When you only have one, all your eggs are in one basket, so there is a greater tendency to overprotect.
  - galfarragem 9y ago
    Doesn't your explanation corroborate the parent comment? Individualism and traditional families are more correlated with right-wing policies.
    - WillPostForFood 9y ago
      Parent, or parent-parent? I'd put "safety" laws on the left side of the political spectrum, so decline in individualism & religion would correlate to more safety laws.
  - mathw 9y ago
    Aren't individualism and religion opposing philosophies? Most religions demand conformity.
orf 9y ago
> because of all these problems caused by the cancerous lefties! "You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did." Yeah. Cancerous lefties indeed.
- wholinator 9y ago
  Do you have a source for that quote? I'd be very interested in reading the rest of whatever that is.
  - cholantesh 9y ago
    Interview conducted by Dan Baum for an article in Harper's from '94: https://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/legalize-it-all/ https://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/legalize-it-all/
HelloNurse 9y ago
The attitude of accepting the status quo, blaming someone, and proudly doing nothing is far more politically "cancerous" than any misguided policy. Can't you think of ways to increase the "social capital"? Don't you share the good intentions that, as you admit, inspired a long period of "leftist" Californian governments?
sctb 9y ago
> Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. > We ban accounts that use Hacker News primarily for political or ideological battle, regardless of which politics they favor. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html