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This isn't a new demon-haunted world, this is the old, demon-haunted world before nineteenth-century progressive politics, back when "milk" that wasn't half cha

This isn't a new demon-haunted world, this is the old, demon-haunted world before nineteenth-century progressive politics, back when "milk" that wasn't half chalk still might have a fish in it (see famous Thoreau quote on evidence.) We aren't enforcing the laws we have and our grandfathers and mothers had. (Three guesses why.) Not on monopolies, contracts, patent misuse... nothing. Just this week I and Hearthstone came to a stop - Blizzard's new policy insists on a credit card and that I owe them for purchases made if they leak the card no! I can't sign in to play "my" cards 'till I agree this is totally cool. Sure, the old policy said they could revise it as they liked, but the law says otherwise and always has. They don't care - it'll be years before the law is enforced against them, as it was with Steam and refunds. No cops - so to speak - on the beat, and Trump vowing to fire more regulators, that's what's changed. The number of potential demons is more of a constant.

ryanx435 9y ago
Why are you blaming Trump when you yourself admit that this has been going on since the 1800s?
- Nomentatus 9y ago
  1980's more like, this time 'round. Trump's just the last to pile on, I agree.
- CamperBob2 9y ago
  Because the Trump administration has promised to do what it can to make it even harder for consumers to fight back.
- deepnet 9y ago
  Because, currently the buck stops there. Those in charge ultimately bear the responsibility. Not criticising leaders is the road to ruin, and senseless jingoism. National humility trumps national pride as a useful virtue.
glaberficken 9y ago
> back when "milk" that wasn't half chalk still might have a fish in it (see famous Thoreau quote on evidence.) This also famously happened with bread. You can read about it for example in Bill Bryson's "At Home: A Short History of Private Life" https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/712524-because-bread-was-so-important-the-laws-governing-its-purity https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/712524-because-bread-was-so... “Because bread was so important, the laws governing its purity were strict and the punishment severe. A baker who cheated his customers could be fined £10 per loaf sold, or made to do a month's hard labor in prison. For a time, transportation to Australia was seriously considered for malfeasant bakers. This was a matter of real concern for bakers because every loaf of bread loses weight in baking through evaporation, so it is easy to blunder accidentally. For that reason, bakers sometimes provided a little extra- the famous baker's dozen.” ― Bill Bryson, At Home: A Short History of Private Life
astrange 9y ago
> Blizzard's new policy insists on a credit card and that I owe them for purchases made if they leak the card no! This can’t hurt you if you use a credit and not a debit card. Any false charge on a credit card is not your fault, and it’s not your money. The CC company will pay for it.
- Nomentatus 9y ago
  Blizzard will claim the charge is in no way fraudulent, my proving it is in court would take years.
- johngalt 9y ago
  A chargeback (reg E claim) is paid by the vendor not the CC company. The vendor absorbs the risk of fraud.
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  It depends on how you define "hurt"; while the CC company will take care of it, it's not instant - and it's no fun dealing with someone going over your credit limit on a cross-state shopping spree. By all means, please - don't use debit cards online - but it's still not a panacea.
  - muddi900 9y ago
    Also, sometimes charges are reversed via chargeback requests, and I have beaten chargeback requests because the customer claimed the CC was stolen, but I had the correct billing info.
hutzlibu 9y ago
"on the beat, and Trump vowing to fire more regulators, that's what's changed. " I don't really like to defend trumps sayings, but in this case I don't think there are government regulators needed. The company acted shitty and you took the consequences and quit and avoid this company. That's how market works. No need for regulation here. The "only" problem with this in general today is, that most people do not understand technology at all, that's why big corporation's can get away with the shit they are doing, as there are still people using their consumer unfriendly, but shiny new products. I doubt more government regulation would help with that. Smarter people are required. And I do believe this is happening, it just takes some time.
- graphitezepp 9y ago
  In past this was how I thought, and still is to a large degree and think smarter people is the core, but I do see ways in which regulation can create real positive change. Specifically on the issue of say, how companies are allowed to market. People might be smarter if they are less brainwashed.
  - hutzlibu 9y ago
    hm, I see it more in a way, that people are not so smart because of regulation. Like, if the state allows this to be sold, it can't be fraud. So they don't bother to check further. And regulation s about brainwashing ... I am not sure how that could really work.
    - mcguire 9y ago
      As an exercise, list everything you have bought in the last month or so; food, gas, electronics, whatever. Now list all the ways those products could be adulterated, fraudulently modified, or faked. Now list the specialized knowledge and skills you would need to detect the fraud. Now try to get some work done while you are caveat emptoring.
      - hutzlibu 9y ago
hycaria 9y ago
Can't you turn around against your bank in the case where unapproved payments would be made with your leaked card ? I mean thats a displeasant clause for sure, but I don't see its implications as gigantic as you seem to do.

ryanx435 9y ago

Why are you blaming Trump when you yourself admit that this has been going on since the 1800s?

Nomentatus 9y ago
1980's more like, this time 'round. Trump's just the last to pile on, I agree.
CamperBob2 9y ago
Because the Trump administration has promised to do what it can to make it even harder for consumers to fight back.
deepnet 9y ago
Because, currently the buck stops there. Those in charge ultimately bear the responsibility. Not criticising leaders is the road to ruin, and senseless jingoism. National humility trumps national pride as a useful virtue.

glaberficken 9y ago

> back when "milk" that wasn't half chalk still might have a fish in it (see famous Thoreau quote on evidence.) This also famously happened with bread. You can read about it for example in Bill Bryson's "At Home: A Short History of Private Life" https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/712524-because-bread-was-so-important-the-laws-governing-its-purity https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/712524-because-bread-was-so... “Because bread was so important, the laws governing its purity were strict and the punishment severe. A baker who cheated his customers could be fined £10 per loaf sold, or made to do a month's hard labor in prison. For a time, transportation to Australia was seriously considered for malfeasant bakers. This was a matter of real concern for bakers because every loaf of bread loses weight in baking through evaporation, so it is easy to blunder accidentally. For that reason, bakers sometimes provided a little extra- the famous baker's dozen.” ― Bill Bryson, At Home: A Short History of Private Life

astrange 9y ago

> Blizzard's new policy insists on a credit card and that I owe them for purchases made if they leak the card no! This can’t hurt you if you use a credit and not a debit card. Any false charge on a credit card is not your fault, and it’s not your money. The CC company will pay for it.

Nomentatus 9y ago
Blizzard will claim the charge is in no way fraudulent, my proving it is in court would take years.
johngalt 9y ago
A chargeback (reg E claim) is paid by the vendor not the CC company. The vendor absorbs the risk of fraud.
pavel_lishin 9y ago
It depends on how you define "hurt"; while the CC company will take care of it, it's not instant - and it's no fun dealing with someone going over your credit limit on a cross-state shopping spree. By all means, please - don't use debit cards online - but it's still not a panacea.
- muddi900 9y ago
  Also, sometimes charges are reversed via chargeback requests, and I have beaten chargeback requests because the customer claimed the CC was stolen, but I had the correct billing info.

hutzlibu 9y ago

"on the beat, and Trump vowing to fire more regulators, that's what's changed. " I don't really like to defend trumps sayings, but in this case I don't think there are government regulators needed. The company acted shitty and you took the consequences and quit and avoid this company. That's how market works. No need for regulation here. The "only" problem with this in general today is, that most people do not understand technology at all, that's why big corporation's can get away with the shit they are doing, as there are still people using their consumer unfriendly, but shiny new products. I doubt more government regulation would help with that. Smarter people are required. And I do believe this is happening, it just takes some time.

graphitezepp 9y ago
In past this was how I thought, and still is to a large degree and think smarter people is the core, but I do see ways in which regulation can create real positive change. Specifically on the issue of say, how companies are allowed to market. People might be smarter if they are less brainwashed.
- hutzlibu 9y ago
  hm, I see it more in a way, that people are not so smart because of regulation. Like, if the state allows this to be sold, it can't be fraud. So they don't bother to check further. And regulation s about brainwashing ... I am not sure how that could really work.
  - mcguire 9y ago
    As an exercise, list everything you have bought in the last month or so; food, gas, electronics, whatever. Now list all the ways those products could be adulterated, fraudulently modified, or faked. Now list the specialized knowledge and skills you would need to detect the fraud. Now try to get some work done while you are caveat emptoring.
    - hutzlibu 9y ago

hycaria 9y ago

Can't you turn around against your bank in the case where unapproved payments would be made with your leaked card ? I mean thats a displeasant clause for sure, but I don't see its implications as gigantic as you seem to do.