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Hello! Lynne here, the creator of Key Values. I’m an indie hacker, and I've spent the last few months putting this together. I interviewed dozens of engineers

Hello! Lynne here, the creator of Key Values. I’m an indie hacker, and I've spent the last few months putting this together. I interviewed dozens of engineers to come up with a list of values: things we care about most when evaluating new opportunities. I then worked with engineering teams (which you see listed on Key Values) to identify the 8 values that best describe their engineering team and culture. I’m working to add more teams to the site and would love to hear from you!

javajosh 9y ago
I like the idea, but there are some important values missing from the list: 1. Principle over loyalty. 2. Empower individuals over institutions. 3. Self-restraint over greed. 4. Decisions based on reason, not ego. 5. Give back to Open Source. Thanks.
- Domenic_S 9y ago
  These don't fit well into what OP's doing. What company in their right mind would say "We base our decisions on ego over reason"? Even though that might be true....
  - nerdponx 9y ago
    The data doesn't come from the company, it comes from individual employees who were interviewed.
  - erikpukinskis 9y ago
    Many companies run decisions based on seniority. If you're on top, you choose. You have no responsibility to explain your choices, or have detailed reasoning. You earned the privilege of deciding through your success, and your continued status lives or dies by your continued success. That's very different from a company where the value is to be transparent, solicit input from everyone, and let decisions be questioned by underlings with rational concerns.
ryanschneider 9y ago
Very nice site! I was surprised that selecting multiple values to filter by resulted in an "OR" query rather than an "AND" one. Is that just because there isn't a lot of content yet? Also, some sort of structured data about company locations would be great, especially as the data set grows in size. Even if you don't display it yet, probably worth while to collect it now if you're not already so it can be added easily enough when necessary. I realize the open positions have location, but I might want to "follow" a local company w/o any open positions at the moment in case my or their situation changes.
- lynnetye 9y ago
  Thanks, and you're exactly right about both of those things. It'll make more sense to use AND once I add more profiles! (It's a pretty sad experience using AND at this point haha) Re: locations, I'm w/ you! I was focusing on Bay Area teams to start but then companies in other cities started reaching out! I couldn't possibly exclude them :)
  - shimon 9y ago
    In addition to location, you'll also want to filter on: - company size - years experience desired - compensation offered (one of the things that makes AngelList jobs and the monthly HN jobs post so effective is that it's the norm to include comp info) - tech stack (to know if I have relevant experience to get in the door / if I want to use those tools) - roles (you should put into standard buckets like AngelList does)
slavapestov 9y ago
I'm curious why your web site so prominently lists that employees eat dinner at work before going home. Do you not realize this is a major red flag and automatically turns off anyone with a family, even if it's "optional"?
- ringaroundthetx 9y ago
  then pick a different set of key values it has the opposite affect on anyone without a family that wants the camaraderie, experiences and free meal
- mythrwy 9y ago
  Eat dinner at work 4 hours before going home.
hendler 9y ago
Nice work. Data collection is definitely the hardest part of this, so the more work you do to streamline and incentivize the UI and UX the better. For a first step, maybe use google spreadsheets convert to form feature?
findorast 9y ago
You offer more jobs the more values I select. It seems that you select the jobs by 'or-ing' the values so that the jobs are shown where at least one value matches. I would prefer if you would 'and' the values so that I only see the positions that fulfill all the values that I have selected.
zeta_ 9y ago
It's a little annoying when you go to a company page and wants to return and no options are selected anymore
mck- 9y ago
This is awesome! I'm glad to see this on the front-page of HN. I believe core value alignment is one of the most important things in a team, both from the company as well as the employee's perspective. Unfortunately very often ignored.. I had just blogged about the importance of culture last month [1] where I heard a talk from a CEO that grew his team rapidly to 60 strong, only to have to let 21 go in one day, due to a lack of cultural alignment. [1] https://blog.routific.com/the-importance-of-startup-culture-69d41362ac9b https://blog.routific.com/the-importance-of-startup-culture-...
alexryan 9y ago
This is a really great idea. Please consider adding value ranking. For example, many people might value both meritocracy and diversity but valuing one more highly than another creates a completely different culture. P.S. Please consider adding "meritocracy" as a value.
- slavapestov 9y ago
  You can't really have one without the other. It's not really meritocracy if you're excluding a large portion of your candidate pool due to bias.
  - alexryan 9y ago
    Not a logical statement. It is entirely possible to value merit over diversity.
    - Consultant32452 9y ago
      I would submit that the two are in contention with one another.
      - slavapestov 9y ago
        How so? Like I said, a more inclusive workplace is about having a larger pool of candidates to draw from. I haven't seen anyone suggest that diversity is to be achieved by lowering hiring standards, that is a strawman.
        Consultant32452 9y ago
        Opening the pool to as many potential candidates as possible is not the same as taking an active role in making sure the people you bring on are actually diverse.
  - aqme28 9y ago
    I really don't understand this meme. I've never seen a company where I felt like straight white males (myself being one of them) were excluded due to diversity initiatives. We're still pretty well-represented at even the most staunchly pro-diversity companies.
Akkuma 9y ago
I was surprised to see nothing about transparency, since I know myself and other who tend to value that very highly.
nerdponx 9y ago
What's your plan to continue eliciting and updating the data on your site? And what kind of sampling methodology do you use for choosing engineers to interview?
aqme28 9y ago
I strongly think you should add company (or at least engineering org) size to this. A company that's less than 100 people is very different from a company over 1000, all other values being equal.
lynnetye 9y ago
Since posting here earlier today, I've gotten a lot of feedback and had many conversations with people about Key Values. I wanted to share a couple of thoughts and observations :) 1. Most people feel strongly that some subset of the "values" listed on Key Values don't belong there. I interpret this as a success! I've read hundreds of careers pages and countless job descriptions working on Key Values. You know what they all say? "Make an impact, learn a lot, and have fun doing it." I've also talked to and interviewed 100+ engineers to learn what they look for when changing jobs. You know what they always said? "I want to have real impact on the product, learn a lot in the process, and have fun at work." When everyone checks all of the boxes, we don't get anywhere. I wanted to choose values that were general enough to appeal to multiple teams/people but divisive enough to only be selected by a few. Different values resonate with different people, and that's the whole point. (For the record: I will certainly add values that I've missed over time, but I doubt I will remove many.) 2. Many of us have strong opinions about what certain values signal about a team/company/organization. These opinions say a lot about our previous experiences. Let me use myself as an example. When I first dropped out of grad school and joined a startup, I genuinely believed that "work/life balance" was a pseudonym for a lack of passion. "If you truly love what you're doing, you don't even call it work." A few years later, I was burned out and swung the other way. I wanted to establish a clear separation between work and personal, so I never worked weekends, never worked late, and never attended company happy hours. Now, I kind of crave that fast-paced, work with urgency kind of environment again. Right now, in this particular chapter in my life, I'd be a little sad if everyone went home at 5pm and I was working by myself until 8pm. To piggy back on the work/life separation: I am a female in tech who no longer drinks alcohol but I still appreciate teams that do so professionally. My personal experiences with drinking at the workplace happen to all be goods ones. Sometimes introverted, socially-awkward people need a beer to loosen up and I really like connecting with my colleagues on a personal level. I don't feel left out or uncomfortable at events where everyone is drinking except for me, and I know that while this is true for me, it isn't for everyone else. Sorry to compare looking for a job to dating again, but it works here too. We specifically look for things we didn't get enough of in our previous job/relationship when looking for new ones, and we specifically avoid things that we've made negative associations with in our past (we call them "red flags"). Everyone has their own set of personal experiences to draw from and use to navigate the world. Thanks everyone for your thoughtful feedback and insightful discussions!

javajosh 9y ago

I like the idea, but there are some important values missing from the list: 1. Principle over loyalty. 2. Empower individuals over institutions. 3. Self-restraint over greed. 4. Decisions based on reason, not ego. 5. Give back to Open Source. Thanks.

Domenic_S 9y ago
These don't fit well into what OP's doing. What company in their right mind would say "We base our decisions on ego over reason"? Even though that might be true....
- nerdponx 9y ago
  The data doesn't come from the company, it comes from individual employees who were interviewed.
- erikpukinskis 9y ago
  Many companies run decisions based on seniority. If you're on top, you choose. You have no responsibility to explain your choices, or have detailed reasoning. You earned the privilege of deciding through your success, and your continued status lives or dies by your continued success. That's very different from a company where the value is to be transparent, solicit input from everyone, and let decisions be questioned by underlings with rational concerns.

ryanschneider 9y ago

Very nice site! I was surprised that selecting multiple values to filter by resulted in an "OR" query rather than an "AND" one. Is that just because there isn't a lot of content yet? Also, some sort of structured data about company locations would be great, especially as the data set grows in size. Even if you don't display it yet, probably worth while to collect it now if you're not already so it can be added easily enough when necessary. I realize the open positions have location, but I might want to "follow" a local company w/o any open positions at the moment in case my or their situation changes.

lynnetye 9y ago
Thanks, and you're exactly right about both of those things. It'll make more sense to use AND once I add more profiles! (It's a pretty sad experience using AND at this point haha) Re: locations, I'm w/ you! I was focusing on Bay Area teams to start but then companies in other cities started reaching out! I couldn't possibly exclude them :)
- shimon 9y ago
  In addition to location, you'll also want to filter on: - company size - years experience desired - compensation offered (one of the things that makes AngelList jobs and the monthly HN jobs post so effective is that it's the norm to include comp info) - tech stack (to know if I have relevant experience to get in the door / if I want to use those tools) - roles (you should put into standard buckets like AngelList does)

slavapestov 9y ago

I'm curious why your web site so prominently lists that employees eat dinner at work before going home. Do you not realize this is a major red flag and automatically turns off anyone with a family, even if it's "optional"?

ringaroundthetx 9y ago
then pick a different set of key values it has the opposite affect on anyone without a family that wants the camaraderie, experiences and free meal
mythrwy 9y ago
Eat dinner at work 4 hours before going home.

hendler 9y ago

Nice work. Data collection is definitely the hardest part of this, so the more work you do to streamline and incentivize the UI and UX the better. For a first step, maybe use google spreadsheets convert to form feature?

findorast 9y ago

You offer more jobs the more values I select. It seems that you select the jobs by 'or-ing' the values so that the jobs are shown where at least one value matches. I would prefer if you would 'and' the values so that I only see the positions that fulfill all the values that I have selected.

zeta_ 9y ago

It's a little annoying when you go to a company page and wants to return and no options are selected anymore

mck- 9y ago

This is awesome! I'm glad to see this on the front-page of HN. I believe core value alignment is one of the most important things in a team, both from the company as well as the employee's perspective. Unfortunately very often ignored.. I had just blogged about the importance of culture last month [1] where I heard a talk from a CEO that grew his team rapidly to 60 strong, only to have to let 21 go in one day, due to a lack of cultural alignment. [1] https://blog.routific.com/the-importance-of-startup-culture-69d41362ac9b https://blog.routific.com/the-importance-of-startup-culture-...

alexryan 9y ago

This is a really great idea. Please consider adding value ranking. For example, many people might value both meritocracy and diversity but valuing one more highly than another creates a completely different culture. P.S. Please consider adding "meritocracy" as a value.

slavapestov 9y ago
You can't really have one without the other. It's not really meritocracy if you're excluding a large portion of your candidate pool due to bias.
- alexryan 9y ago
  Not a logical statement. It is entirely possible to value merit over diversity.
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    I would submit that the two are in contention with one another.
    - slavapestov 9y ago
      How so? Like I said, a more inclusive workplace is about having a larger pool of candidates to draw from. I haven't seen anyone suggest that diversity is to be achieved by lowering hiring standards, that is a strawman.
      - Consultant32452 9y ago
        Opening the pool to as many potential candidates as possible is not the same as taking an active role in making sure the people you bring on are actually diverse.
- aqme28 9y ago
  I really don't understand this meme. I've never seen a company where I felt like straight white males (myself being one of them) were excluded due to diversity initiatives. We're still pretty well-represented at even the most staunchly pro-diversity companies.

Akkuma 9y ago

I was surprised to see nothing about transparency, since I know myself and other who tend to value that very highly.

nerdponx 9y ago

What's your plan to continue eliciting and updating the data on your site? And what kind of sampling methodology do you use for choosing engineers to interview?

aqme28 9y ago

I strongly think you should add company (or at least engineering org) size to this. A company that's less than 100 people is very different from a company over 1000, all other values being equal.

lynnetye 9y ago

Since posting here earlier today, I've gotten a lot of feedback and had many conversations with people about Key Values. I wanted to share a couple of thoughts and observations :) 1. Most people feel strongly that some subset of the "values" listed on Key Values don't belong there. I interpret this as a success! I've read hundreds of careers pages and countless job descriptions working on Key Values. You know what they all say? "Make an impact, learn a lot, and have fun doing it." I've also talked to and interviewed 100+ engineers to learn what they look for when changing jobs. You know what they always said? "I want to have real impact on the product, learn a lot in the process, and have fun at work." When everyone checks all of the boxes, we don't get anywhere. I wanted to choose values that were general enough to appeal to multiple teams/people but divisive enough to only be selected by a few. Different values resonate with different people, and that's the whole point. (For the record: I will certainly add values that I've missed over time, but I doubt I will remove many.) 2. Many of us have strong opinions about what certain values signal about a team/company/organization. These opinions say a lot about our previous experiences. Let me use myself as an example. When I first dropped out of grad school and joined a startup, I genuinely believed that "work/life balance" was a pseudonym for a lack of passion. "If you truly love what you're doing, you don't even call it work." A few years later, I was burned out and swung the other way. I wanted to establish a clear separation between work and personal, so I never worked weekends, never worked late, and never attended company happy hours. Now, I kind of crave that fast-paced, work with urgency kind of environment again. Right now, in this particular chapter in my life, I'd be a little sad if everyone went home at 5pm and I was working by myself until 8pm. To piggy back on the work/life separation: I am a female in tech who no longer drinks alcohol but I still appreciate teams that do so professionally. My personal experiences with drinking at the workplace happen to all be goods ones. Sometimes introverted, socially-awkward people need a beer to loosen up and I really like connecting with my colleagues on a personal level. I don't feel left out or uncomfortable at events where everyone is drinking except for me, and I know that while this is true for me, it isn't for everyone else. Sorry to compare looking for a job to dating again, but it works here too. We specifically look for things we didn't get enough of in our previous job/relationship when looking for new ones, and we specifically avoid things that we've made negative associations with in our past (we call them "red flags"). Everyone has their own set of personal experiences to draw from and use to navigate the world. Thanks everyone for your thoughtful feedback and insightful discussions!