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- User doesn't like the fact that buildbot (which they think is maintained by mozilla) uses "master/slave" terminology https://github.com/rust-lang/rust-buildbo

- User doesn't like the fact that buildbot (which they think is maintained by mozilla) uses "master/slave" terminology https://github.com/rust-lang/rust-buildbot/issues/2 https://github.com/rust-lang/rust-buildbot/issues/2 . Mozilla gives buildbot $15k for changing it https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2015/12/10/mozilla-open-source-support-first-awards-made/ https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2015/12/10/mozilla-open-source... - User doesn't like that dining philosophers is cited with some male and/or gender-neutral pronouns and placeholders (even though the original exposition was already changed to female pronouns) -- proceeds to change the rest of the pronouns to female (I guess gender-neutral didn't make sense) https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/25640 https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/25640 - User thinks "bad code style" is offensive https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/41646 https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/41646 - User doesn't like brotli encoding type being called "bro" https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=366559#c147 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=366559#c147 - User thinks that the code of conduct is too general in its suggestions that all people be respected and treated fairly -- it needs to explicitly cite certain groups https://github.com/rust-lang/rust-www/issues/268 https://github.com/rust-lang/rust-www/issues/268 This stuff is absolutely ridiculous. Write a code of conduct, make sure everyone is respected, and make that the end of it. Changing documentation to gender-neutral pronouns is something I can actually get behind -- nevertheless, that's still not fair apparently.

Etzos 9y ago
> Write a code of conduct, make sure everyone is respected, and make that the end of it. But that's exactly what all of your examples are. In each situation the decision and action was to make things as neutral and inclusive as possible. That there are people in any given community which want things to be taken in a different direction (any direction, social or otherwise) seems like a pretty natural thing.
- david-cako 9y ago
  Good luck finding these types of patches in the Linux kernel dev community. There is a very specific type of culture that spawns this kind of timewasting.
  - Etzos 9y ago
    I don't exactly see the Linux kernel dev community as being inclusive, so that's not really an apt comparison. Nor is it a language-based community. It's a very specific set of people who are expected to follow the rules and do things in a particular manner; and for them that's okay. For a programming language community though I don't think that's the kind of approach to take. Sure, it could work and you may get some very talented people to help, but it's also arbitrarily limiting the kinds of people who can contribute and feel welcome based on the thickness of their skin, not on their technical ability. You may consider this timewasting, but I think it's more like a clever and nuanced form or marketing. Not only do you get the benefits of including more potentially skilled people into your community, you encourage them to actually get involved with the language. It seems like a worthwhile investment to me.
    - dungle6 9y ago
      You do realize that the politics of Rust are exclusionary. There are people, myself included, that do not want to (or risk) get wrapped up in the axle of this brand of social politics. I feel included enough in Linux kernel dev to get work done. OTOH I don't feel the need to walk on eggshells to be part of your group. Am I marginalized enough to be of particular protection (as mentioned in your coc)? I don't know what to tell you. You can't please everyone. The rust project has the right to run it on their terms but your "inclusion" is necessarily exclusionary. Accept it and admit it. At least the kernel devs aren't blatant hypocrites on the topic.
  - gcp 9y ago
    I wouldn't hold the Linux kernel dev community as an example of...well pretty much anything really, least of all a meritocracy.
  - RaleyField 9y ago
    > kernel dev community .. timewasting Dude what you listed are trivialities and if you consider the throughput of Rust project the time taken must surely be negligible. I wonder what Theo or Brad think about timewasting on that other paragon of a project you mentioned.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
gcp 9y ago
User doesn't like brotli encoding type being called "bro" https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=366559#c147 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=366559#c147 1) "User" is the principal engineer of most of Gecko's network stack and pointing out that using that name will lead to complaints during the standardization. 2) The code in question isn't Rust at all. I mean why even bring this up given (2)?
- david-cako 9y ago
  > (perhaps it's a mozilla cultural affect?) I didn't know that. The fact that a lead engineer is entertaining people who are upset with "brotli" being abbreviated to "bro" is honestly case in point.
  - gcp 9y ago
    1) As the person who has to drive the result through standards committees, he has to consider how it will be perceived. 2) Again, what has it got to do with Rust?!
    - david-cako 9y ago
      If my giving examples of how mozilla as a company engages in social politics (the buildbot one is the best example) doesn't relate to rust, I don't know what to tell you.
      - steveklabnik 9y ago
        Mozilla does not and cannot dictate what happens with Rust, given that we operate by consensus and Mozilla does not hold a majority position in governance. This is on purpose!
pornel 9y ago
Gödel incompleteness theorem strikes. Rust goes to great lengths to keep everyone happy, but ends up putting off people like you, who don't like projects going to great lengths to keep everyone happy :)

Etzos 9y ago

> Write a code of conduct, make sure everyone is respected, and make that the end of it. But that's exactly what all of your examples are. In each situation the decision and action was to make things as neutral and inclusive as possible. That there are people in any given community which want things to be taken in a different direction (any direction, social or otherwise) seems like a pretty natural thing.

david-cako 9y ago
Good luck finding these types of patches in the Linux kernel dev community. There is a very specific type of culture that spawns this kind of timewasting.
- Etzos 9y ago
  I don't exactly see the Linux kernel dev community as being inclusive, so that's not really an apt comparison. Nor is it a language-based community. It's a very specific set of people who are expected to follow the rules and do things in a particular manner; and for them that's okay. For a programming language community though I don't think that's the kind of approach to take. Sure, it could work and you may get some very talented people to help, but it's also arbitrarily limiting the kinds of people who can contribute and feel welcome based on the thickness of their skin, not on their technical ability. You may consider this timewasting, but I think it's more like a clever and nuanced form or marketing. Not only do you get the benefits of including more potentially skilled people into your community, you encourage them to actually get involved with the language. It seems like a worthwhile investment to me.
  - dungle6 9y ago
    You do realize that the politics of Rust are exclusionary. There are people, myself included, that do not want to (or risk) get wrapped up in the axle of this brand of social politics. I feel included enough in Linux kernel dev to get work done. OTOH I don't feel the need to walk on eggshells to be part of your group. Am I marginalized enough to be of particular protection (as mentioned in your coc)? I don't know what to tell you. You can't please everyone. The rust project has the right to run it on their terms but your "inclusion" is necessarily exclusionary. Accept it and admit it. At least the kernel devs aren't blatant hypocrites on the topic.
- gcp 9y ago
  I wouldn't hold the Linux kernel dev community as an example of...well pretty much anything really, least of all a meritocracy.
- RaleyField 9y ago
  > kernel dev community .. timewasting Dude what you listed are trivialities and if you consider the throughput of Rust project the time taken must surely be negligible. I wonder what Theo or Brad think about timewasting on that other paragon of a project you mentioned.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

gcp 9y ago

User doesn't like brotli encoding type being called "bro" https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=366559#c147 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=366559#c147 1) "User" is the principal engineer of most of Gecko's network stack and pointing out that using that name will lead to complaints during the standardization. 2) The code in question isn't Rust at all. I mean why even bring this up given (2)?

david-cako 9y ago
> (perhaps it's a mozilla cultural affect?) I didn't know that. The fact that a lead engineer is entertaining people who are upset with "brotli" being abbreviated to "bro" is honestly case in point.
- gcp 9y ago
  1) As the person who has to drive the result through standards committees, he has to consider how it will be perceived. 2) Again, what has it got to do with Rust?!
  - david-cako 9y ago
    If my giving examples of how mozilla as a company engages in social politics (the buildbot one is the best example) doesn't relate to rust, I don't know what to tell you.
    - steveklabnik 9y ago
      Mozilla does not and cannot dictate what happens with Rust, given that we operate by consensus and Mozilla does not hold a majority position in governance. This is on purpose!

pornel 9y ago

Gödel incompleteness theorem strikes. Rust goes to great lengths to keep everyone happy, but ends up putting off people like you, who don't like projects going to great lengths to keep everyone happy :)