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There are many assumptions made by this article in an attempt to build a straw man. First, there are many places where the author references children. Yes peop

There are many assumptions made by this article in an attempt to build a straw man. First, there are many places where the author references children. Yes people in poverty have children, but the points she makes, also assume that the individual is a single parent. >Cost of an extra hour of childcare to account for the commute time (at $13/hour, as well): $260 per month >Which equals $800 – and doesn’t take into account the fact that grocery shopping by bus is not ideal for someone with kids in tow. If you have a partner, both of these scenarios are likely a complete non-issue. Second, the author uses incredibly avoidable financial decisions as justification as to why poverty is expensive. >Overdraft fees, late fees on missed bills, high-interest credit card fees, and payday lenders are just a few ways that poverty begets higher expenses. The average payday loan borrower – who is usually short just a few hundred dollars between paychecks – ends up paying more than 300% interest on their initial amount. Why are these necessary components of poverty? This is making wild assumptions that a payday loan is the only option when short. >Banks also find ways to capitalize on people without money. Many checking accounts require that a person carry a minimum balance – and fine customers for every month that they don’t meet the requirement. Checking accounts are free for anyone that can provide a consistent direct deposit, regardless of balance. If the job does not offer a direct deposit, its worth noting that many Credit Unions also offer free checking just for having an account. >Each year, immigrants pay billions into our tax coffers, only to get the short end of the economic stick. I would pay to see factual evidence backing this statement up. I could go on, but this is only halfway through the article...

sidlls 9y ago
> Why are these necessary components of poverty? Try getting a checking account or a share account in a credit union when you have a checkered history of overdrafts or bounced checks. Frankly your comment reads like a person who's never been poor lecturing poor folks. Frequently what we'd describe as a "financial decision" isn't a decision for poor people so much as a desperate attempt at keeping one's head above water. It's hard to do what you might call "the rational thing" when one is starving, has hungry kids, or has to choose between food, utilities, or medicine.
- restingrobot 9y ago
  You have moved to an ad hominem approach regarding my past, normally I wouldn't even respond to this, but in this instance you are completely wrong. I actually grew up very poor. As in my next meal was a privilege and not a guaranteed thing. I think its easy to dismiss my points by assuming that I have no experience with poverty, (or the pain of not having eaten a substantive meal for several days). Again you reference >checkered history of overdrafts or bounced checks. Believe it our not, these are choices. You have a choice whether or not to write a check for more than you have in your bank account. You have a choice whether to with draw more than your current balance. Furthermore, your point is moot as there are many options for those with spotty histories. A quick google search turned up this: https://twocents.lifehacker.com/how-can-i-open-a-bank-account-when-my-credit-sucks-1585417920 https://twocents.lifehacker.com/how-can-i-open-a-bank-accoun...
  - kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
    >> You have a choice whether or not to write a check for more than you have in your bank account. It's a 'choice' if you are choosing to buy a shiny thing you didn't really need. It's hardly a choice if you have to write that check to buy medicines for your sick kid.
    - MaymayMaster 9y ago
      It's your choice to have a kid. My wife and I are waiting to meet a certain household income before having kids. I have little sympathy for people who are poor, have kids, and complain about how expensive it is.
    - loco5niner 9y ago
      >> It's hardly a choice if you have to write that check to buy medicines for your sick kid. This is certainly a tough scenario to argue against (way to choose a truly heart-wrenching emotional situation ;-), but the fact is, if you are writing a check (even for a good cause), knowing that you don't have money in the account, that also is a choice. Certainly there must be another way... use a credit card, get in a time machine and convince last_year_you that you need to create a small (or large) emergency fund for these sorts of things... etc.
cardiffspaceman 9y ago
Checking accounts are handled by banks in the way that best benefits the banks. For example, you could get charged for an overdraft because they applied all your withdrawals before they applied your paycheck deposit, even though the algebraic sum of the day would be positive. That means you need some level of cushion, which you cannot achieve using the bank account itself (see above). Bank policies create uncertainty in the availability of the funds, such that if you need the paycheck to pay a bill due on Friday you can't deposit the check on Thursday, because the bank won't take account of the deposit until Monday. If you have a partner it is an option to have one of the partners do the child care, but there are opportunity costs and other things that go into it. I think one thing that is seldom explicitly considered is, there is a degree of security in having two employed adults in the household.
- restingrobot 9y ago
  I don't understand your point here? Yes banks try to benefit themselves as far as checking goes. But as long as you only spend what you have in your account, (as in available funds), then you will never have a scenario like this. I have never had uncertainty in the availability of funds, (could be just that my bank says "available funds" as well as "current balance"), and it is almost always better to be late on your bill payment than to overdraft or write a bad check. To you second point, I wasn't referring to childcare in general, just in these specific instances, (e.g. earlier start time for commute and periodic grocery shopping).
  - Posibyte 9y ago
    Coming from poverty, the tiniest issues: flat tire, injury, etc. will easily take that sliver of cash you had left and that's when things like overdraws start. You then get stuck in an endless cycle of loans, credit cards, etc. to cover basic expenses while you try to rebound. It'd be very easy to say "Don't spend what you don't have." but unfortunately many people need more than they're given.
    - restingrobot 9y ago
      I understand issues come up, that doesn't mean that you must overdraft or take a crappy loan. There are so many options for every scenario. Also coming from poverty, one of the hardest life lessons I had to learn was how to be self reliant. I started by changing my thinking. Overdraws and loans are one option and not the only option is most cases. >but unfortunately many people need more than they're given. I have a problem with this statement. I don't think many people in poverty are "given" anything. They need more than they "earn". To say given trivializes the blood, sweat and tears that many people shed just to survive.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

sidlls 9y ago

> Why are these necessary components of poverty? Try getting a checking account or a share account in a credit union when you have a checkered history of overdrafts or bounced checks. Frankly your comment reads like a person who's never been poor lecturing poor folks. Frequently what we'd describe as a "financial decision" isn't a decision for poor people so much as a desperate attempt at keeping one's head above water. It's hard to do what you might call "the rational thing" when one is starving, has hungry kids, or has to choose between food, utilities, or medicine.

restingrobot 9y ago
You have moved to an ad hominem approach regarding my past, normally I wouldn't even respond to this, but in this instance you are completely wrong. I actually grew up very poor. As in my next meal was a privilege and not a guaranteed thing. I think its easy to dismiss my points by assuming that I have no experience with poverty, (or the pain of not having eaten a substantive meal for several days). Again you reference >checkered history of overdrafts or bounced checks. Believe it our not, these are choices. You have a choice whether or not to write a check for more than you have in your bank account. You have a choice whether to with draw more than your current balance. Furthermore, your point is moot as there are many options for those with spotty histories. A quick google search turned up this: https://twocents.lifehacker.com/how-can-i-open-a-bank-account-when-my-credit-sucks-1585417920 https://twocents.lifehacker.com/how-can-i-open-a-bank-accoun...
- kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
  >> You have a choice whether or not to write a check for more than you have in your bank account. It's a 'choice' if you are choosing to buy a shiny thing you didn't really need. It's hardly a choice if you have to write that check to buy medicines for your sick kid.
  - MaymayMaster 9y ago
    It's your choice to have a kid. My wife and I are waiting to meet a certain household income before having kids. I have little sympathy for people who are poor, have kids, and complain about how expensive it is.
  - loco5niner 9y ago
    >> It's hardly a choice if you have to write that check to buy medicines for your sick kid. This is certainly a tough scenario to argue against (way to choose a truly heart-wrenching emotional situation ;-), but the fact is, if you are writing a check (even for a good cause), knowing that you don't have money in the account, that also is a choice. Certainly there must be another way... use a credit card, get in a time machine and convince last_year_you that you need to create a small (or large) emergency fund for these sorts of things... etc.

cardiffspaceman 9y ago

Checking accounts are handled by banks in the way that best benefits the banks. For example, you could get charged for an overdraft because they applied all your withdrawals before they applied your paycheck deposit, even though the algebraic sum of the day would be positive. That means you need some level of cushion, which you cannot achieve using the bank account itself (see above). Bank policies create uncertainty in the availability of the funds, such that if you need the paycheck to pay a bill due on Friday you can't deposit the check on Thursday, because the bank won't take account of the deposit until Monday. If you have a partner it is an option to have one of the partners do the child care, but there are opportunity costs and other things that go into it. I think one thing that is seldom explicitly considered is, there is a degree of security in having two employed adults in the household.

restingrobot 9y ago
I don't understand your point here? Yes banks try to benefit themselves as far as checking goes. But as long as you only spend what you have in your account, (as in available funds), then you will never have a scenario like this. I have never had uncertainty in the availability of funds, (could be just that my bank says "available funds" as well as "current balance"), and it is almost always better to be late on your bill payment than to overdraft or write a bad check. To you second point, I wasn't referring to childcare in general, just in these specific instances, (e.g. earlier start time for commute and periodic grocery shopping).
- Posibyte 9y ago
  Coming from poverty, the tiniest issues: flat tire, injury, etc. will easily take that sliver of cash you had left and that's when things like overdraws start. You then get stuck in an endless cycle of loans, credit cards, etc. to cover basic expenses while you try to rebound. It'd be very easy to say "Don't spend what you don't have." but unfortunately many people need more than they're given.
  - restingrobot 9y ago
    I understand issues come up, that doesn't mean that you must overdraft or take a crappy loan. There are so many options for every scenario. Also coming from poverty, one of the hardest life lessons I had to learn was how to be self reliant. I started by changing my thinking. Overdraws and loans are one option and not the only option is most cases. >but unfortunately many people need more than they're given. I have a problem with this statement. I don't think many people in poverty are "given" anything. They need more than they "earn". To say given trivializes the blood, sweat and tears that many people shed just to survive.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]