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> No Man’s Sky inhabits this frustrating space alongside games like the nu Deus Ex games, the original X-Com, or the Mass Effect series. It offers something you

> No Man’s Sky inhabits this frustrating space alongside games like the nu Deus Ex games, the original X-Com, or the Mass Effect series. It offers something you just can’t get anywhere else, but it does so in a deeply flawed and annoying way. This really resonated with me. I have a whole pile of Steam games which have fascinating, unique traits, but are 'objectively' bad in that they failed to deliver a solid story, or interface, or mechanics, or all of the above. - Artemis: Spaceship Bridge Simulator comes to mind; it's a great exploration of cooperative multiplayer design and the possibilities opened up by incomplete information. But it's also clunky and acutely underdeveloped in terms of game modes, balance, and AI. If you want a good game, you'd better dive deep into modding. - Tharsis also counts; deeply strategic play in a constrained setting, undermined by strategy-destroying levels of randomness. - Even AAA stuff like Civilization does this to me. Why is Civ great? Because nothing else is Civ. Why is Civ terrible? Because the balance is underwhelming and the AI is catastrophically bad. - Hell, for years Minecraft was like this. The opening comment about "imagine if Minecraft had been clunky and unintuitive at release" made me laugh, because it was. Deep Survival play has been almost dependent on mods for much of the games history, but the underlying insight was too good to pass up. So... it's an interesting insight, and it also prompts a question. Why don't more of these intriguing flops prompt more polished attempts?

Karunamon 9y ago
It offers something you just can’t get anywhere else, but it does so in a deeply flawed and annoying way. This just described Elite Dangerous for me. Multiplayer MMO Descent:Freespace scratches a deeply satisfying itch that I've had since I was a kid, but that game's flaws are absolutely maddening. Is there a word to describe the maddening annoyance at something being so close, yet so far away, for objectively silly reasons?
- quirkot 9y ago
  > Is there a word to describe the maddening annoyance at something being so close, yet so far away, for objectively silly reasons? They call that the uncanny valley
- brians 9y ago
  Heartbreaking, in the same sense as Fantasy Heartbreaker tabletop RPGs?
Pigo 9y ago
This may be off-point, but are there more polished attempts at new ideas out there that are worth checking out? I can't keep up with what's worth playing anymore, and don't have time to play every game hoping that it hits the mark. Anytime I check out the top ranking games, it's new Call of Duty's, Battlefields, Assassin's Creeds, or sports (blegh) and a whole host of games that disappear as fast as they show up. I'd kill for a new game that engages as much Civilization or C&C did.
- hello_asdf 9y ago
  Try Europa Universalis 4 by Paradox Interactive. It's a strategy game.
  - Pigo 9y ago
    I think I will be checking this one out
- bllguo 9y ago
  It's not really new, just under the radar - but maybe Paradox Interactive's grand strategy games would be up your alley. Look at Crusader Kings 2, or Europa Universalis 4. I make this recommendation reluctantly as I despise their DLC practices, but those games are pretty great and fulfill an underserved niche. If you do decide to play them - I'd try out the base game before considering DLC, there's just way too much.
- KirinDave 9y ago
  Yes. Modded Minecraft (try All the Mods 3 on the twitch client, or (formerly my modpack) Resonant Rise) Challenge Pack Modded Minecraft (Currently Popular: Age of Engineering, Forever Stranded, Sky Factory 3) Factorio Dwarf Fortress Modded Dwarf Fortress Masterwork Poschengband & Tome4 represent the pinnacle (to me) of classic Roguelike design. Risk of Rain Endless Legend Endless Space 2 (Amplitude releases a consistent and growing world of fantastic games with amazing and long-lived content releases). (Just give Zachtronics all your money and take all their games, but in a particular order:) Shenzen I/O TIS-100 Spacechem Infinifactory Cities: Skylines (Paradox Interactive publishes does this and the next few, they're very good) Europa Universalis 4 Stellaris Great, thoughtful, engaging games are out there if you want them. Sadly, most people are filthy casuals now. Zachtronics games in particular stand out as turning real world thinking and skills into fun games.
smcameron 9y ago
> - Artemis: Spaceship Bridge Simulator comes to mind; it's a great exploration of cooperative multiplayer design and the possibilities opened up by incomplete information. But it's also clunky and acutely underdeveloped in terms of game modes, balance, and AI. If you want a good game, you'd better dive deep into modding. Could you elaborate on the sorts of things you'd like to see in terms of game modes, and AI? I ask because I've been working for the past 5 years on an open source linux game that has the same basic premise as Artemis called Space Nerds In Space, so I'm always on the lookout for good ideas for this type of game.
synicalx 9y ago
Just on Civ, if you like it I'd highly recommend checking out any of Paradox's grand strategy games like Hearts of Iron or Europa Universalis. The AI is generally pretty good, although you might see some questionable behaviour from time to time. Balance is another matter though, for the most part the games try to at least start with some historic accuracy so you'll find some nations are just straight up hard to play. For example, if you start WW2 as Poland in HoI, you're gonna have a bad time.
- Bartweiss 9y ago
  Thanks - Hearts of Iron is definitely on my list. Europa Universalis appeals a bit less, though that's mostly because of my perceptions of the interface and cognitive burden. I could be totally wrong about those. I definitely don't mind bad balance if the game isn't trying for it; Rome: Total War did something very similar with certain nations starting in terrible positions.
  - synicalx 9y ago
    HoI4 is a good starting point I'd say, it's prettier and the UI is much more manageable which makes the whole game feel a lot easier to learn even though it's not hugely less complicated than HoI3. EU is a different beast though, and I know exactly what you mean about the UI. EU4 has made some improvements but once you add in even just a few of the bigger expansions/DLC then it can really get a bit overwhelming.

Karunamon 9y ago

It offers something you just can’t get anywhere else, but it does so in a deeply flawed and annoying way. This just described Elite Dangerous for me. Multiplayer MMO Descent:Freespace scratches a deeply satisfying itch that I've had since I was a kid, but that game's flaws are absolutely maddening. Is there a word to describe the maddening annoyance at something being so close, yet so far away, for objectively silly reasons?

quirkot 9y ago
> Is there a word to describe the maddening annoyance at something being so close, yet so far away, for objectively silly reasons? They call that the uncanny valley
brians 9y ago
Heartbreaking, in the same sense as Fantasy Heartbreaker tabletop RPGs?

Pigo 9y ago

This may be off-point, but are there more polished attempts at new ideas out there that are worth checking out? I can't keep up with what's worth playing anymore, and don't have time to play every game hoping that it hits the mark. Anytime I check out the top ranking games, it's new Call of Duty's, Battlefields, Assassin's Creeds, or sports (blegh) and a whole host of games that disappear as fast as they show up. I'd kill for a new game that engages as much Civilization or C&C did.

hello_asdf 9y ago
Try Europa Universalis 4 by Paradox Interactive. It's a strategy game.
- Pigo 9y ago
  I think I will be checking this one out
bllguo 9y ago
It's not really new, just under the radar - but maybe Paradox Interactive's grand strategy games would be up your alley. Look at Crusader Kings 2, or Europa Universalis 4. I make this recommendation reluctantly as I despise their DLC practices, but those games are pretty great and fulfill an underserved niche. If you do decide to play them - I'd try out the base game before considering DLC, there's just way too much.
KirinDave 9y ago
Yes. Modded Minecraft (try All the Mods 3 on the twitch client, or (formerly my modpack) Resonant Rise) Challenge Pack Modded Minecraft (Currently Popular: Age of Engineering, Forever Stranded, Sky Factory 3) Factorio Dwarf Fortress Modded Dwarf Fortress Masterwork Poschengband & Tome4 represent the pinnacle (to me) of classic Roguelike design. Risk of Rain Endless Legend Endless Space 2 (Amplitude releases a consistent and growing world of fantastic games with amazing and long-lived content releases). (Just give Zachtronics all your money and take all their games, but in a particular order:) Shenzen I/O TIS-100 Spacechem Infinifactory Cities: Skylines (Paradox Interactive publishes does this and the next few, they're very good) Europa Universalis 4 Stellaris Great, thoughtful, engaging games are out there if you want them. Sadly, most people are filthy casuals now. Zachtronics games in particular stand out as turning real world thinking and skills into fun games.

smcameron 9y ago

> - Artemis: Spaceship Bridge Simulator comes to mind; it's a great exploration of cooperative multiplayer design and the possibilities opened up by incomplete information. But it's also clunky and acutely underdeveloped in terms of game modes, balance, and AI. If you want a good game, you'd better dive deep into modding. Could you elaborate on the sorts of things you'd like to see in terms of game modes, and AI? I ask because I've been working for the past 5 years on an open source linux game that has the same basic premise as Artemis called Space Nerds In Space, so I'm always on the lookout for good ideas for this type of game.

synicalx 9y ago

Just on Civ, if you like it I'd highly recommend checking out any of Paradox's grand strategy games like Hearts of Iron or Europa Universalis. The AI is generally pretty good, although you might see some questionable behaviour from time to time. Balance is another matter though, for the most part the games try to at least start with some historic accuracy so you'll find some nations are just straight up hard to play. For example, if you start WW2 as Poland in HoI, you're gonna have a bad time.

Bartweiss 9y ago
Thanks - Hearts of Iron is definitely on my list. Europa Universalis appeals a bit less, though that's mostly because of my perceptions of the interface and cognitive burden. I could be totally wrong about those. I definitely don't mind bad balance if the game isn't trying for it; Rome: Total War did something very similar with certain nations starting in terrible positions.
- synicalx 9y ago
  HoI4 is a good starting point I'd say, it's prettier and the UI is much more manageable which makes the whole game feel a lot easier to learn even though it's not hugely less complicated than HoI3. EU is a different beast though, and I know exactly what you mean about the UI. EU4 has made some improvements but once you add in even just a few of the bigger expansions/DLC then it can really get a bit overwhelming.