4 ms·

> It's got to the point where "free speech" has become a dog whistle for the alt-right. Because pride parades and Occupy protests don't benefit from free speec

> It's got to the point where "free speech" has become a dog whistle for the alt-right. Because pride parades and Occupy protests don't benefit from free speech at all, right? It's more concerning to see the meme of "I don't like what these people say so I'm going to add the 'dogwhistle' tag to it so other Right Thinking people will know to avoid/condemn it without engaging properly". Free speech is critical to the success (such as it is) of the United States today. Deciding to self-cripple because some small groups we don't like are using it is absurd.

moomin 9y ago
You're kind of making my point for me. Occupy protestors regularly got assaulted and arrested. To the best of my knowledge, none of them murdered a woman with a car. As I say, it's not about speech. Speech is just a dog-whistle for what this is really about.
- angersock 9y ago
  > Occupy protestors regularly got assaulted and arrested. To the best of my knowledge, none of them murdered a woman with a car. Black-bloc doing "peaceful protest" have attacked and wounded others and set fire to cars--but I'll still support the free speech of their more lawful compatriots. And before you go "but but but they killed someone!", I'll point out that being less effective at committing violence doesn't give one side the moral highground. I will also happily argue that it was one rogue nutjob who went too far--a courtesy often extended by folks like you to, say, extremist Muslim immigrants in Europe and other places when the exact same sorts of attacks have occurred. > Speech is just a dog-whistle for what this is really about. You (and people like you!) sound increasingly like Joseph McCarthy--and you're hurting America, every time you try to equate fundamental rights and their defense with Evil just because you don't like some of the people who are exercising their rights. Why do you hate freedom?
  - moomin 9y ago
    I'm glad we're clear that your support for black civil rights doesn't go as far as supporting Martin Luther King. And I'm also glad we're clear that you're prepared to give the benefit of the doubt to fascists. And that you think that a belief in fascism and white supremacy and a belief in Islam are appropriate things to compare. And there's a difference between defending freedom and hating it, but I think it's clear you already know that as well.
    - angersock 9y ago
      > I'm glad we're clear that your support for black civil rights doesn't go as far as supporting Martin Luther King. Where did you get this from? Black-bloc refers to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bloc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bloc . If anything, my support is exactly for folks like MLK (and even Malcolm X) as opposed to the domestic terrorism of other groups at the time. > And I'm also glad we're clear that you're prepared to give the benefit of the doubt to fascists. As I also gave the benefit of doubt to communists! > And that you think that a belief in fascism and white supremacy and a belief in Islam are appropriate things to compare. Do you not follow world events? There is indeed a subset of Muslims who believe that non-Muslims are infidels and are fit to be killed or taken advantage of, much as there is a subset of whites who believe that non-whites are fit to be killed or taken advantage of. And some extremists of those subsets apparently use cars to kill gatherings of people. It's a pretty apt comparison. > And there's a difference between defending freedom and hating it, but I think it's clear you already know that as well. Well, yeah--defending freedom usually requires us to deal with real facts critically and to be able to engage with our opponents directly instead of putting words in their mouths.
  - dang 9y ago
    > Why do you hate freedom? Would you please (re)-read the site rules and follow them when commenting here? We've had to ask you this repeatedly. If you continue flouting the site rules, we're going to end up banning you. Political/ideological/etc. flamewars are not what this site is for. Kindly take them elsewhere. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - angersock 9y ago
      The parent submission (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15173354 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15173354) is entitled "We Are At War For A Free And Open Internet". What, exactly, did you expect in the discussion? You continually flag and hide and dismiss a lot of my stuff when it gets under your skin, and I'm as tired of it as you are. > we're going to end up banning you. If you want to ban me go ahead and do it--be a bully, purge another user pour encourager les autres since you don't agree with them. Afterwards, feel free to talk about it with the rest of your friends and colleagues and congratulate each other over how progressive and open-minded you are.

moomin 9y ago

You're kind of making my point for me. Occupy protestors regularly got assaulted and arrested. To the best of my knowledge, none of them murdered a woman with a car. As I say, it's not about speech. Speech is just a dog-whistle for what this is really about.

angersock 9y ago
> Occupy protestors regularly got assaulted and arrested. To the best of my knowledge, none of them murdered a woman with a car. Black-bloc doing "peaceful protest" have attacked and wounded others and set fire to cars--but I'll still support the free speech of their more lawful compatriots. And before you go "but but but they killed someone!", I'll point out that being less effective at committing violence doesn't give one side the moral highground. I will also happily argue that it was one rogue nutjob who went too far--a courtesy often extended by folks like you to, say, extremist Muslim immigrants in Europe and other places when the exact same sorts of attacks have occurred. > Speech is just a dog-whistle for what this is really about. You (and people like you!) sound increasingly like Joseph McCarthy--and you're hurting America, every time you try to equate fundamental rights and their defense with Evil just because you don't like some of the people who are exercising their rights. Why do you hate freedom?
- moomin 9y ago
  I'm glad we're clear that your support for black civil rights doesn't go as far as supporting Martin Luther King. And I'm also glad we're clear that you're prepared to give the benefit of the doubt to fascists. And that you think that a belief in fascism and white supremacy and a belief in Islam are appropriate things to compare. And there's a difference between defending freedom and hating it, but I think it's clear you already know that as well.
  - angersock 9y ago
    > I'm glad we're clear that your support for black civil rights doesn't go as far as supporting Martin Luther King. Where did you get this from? Black-bloc refers to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bloc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bloc . If anything, my support is exactly for folks like MLK (and even Malcolm X) as opposed to the domestic terrorism of other groups at the time. > And I'm also glad we're clear that you're prepared to give the benefit of the doubt to fascists. As I also gave the benefit of doubt to communists! > And that you think that a belief in fascism and white supremacy and a belief in Islam are appropriate things to compare. Do you not follow world events? There is indeed a subset of Muslims who believe that non-Muslims are infidels and are fit to be killed or taken advantage of, much as there is a subset of whites who believe that non-whites are fit to be killed or taken advantage of. And some extremists of those subsets apparently use cars to kill gatherings of people. It's a pretty apt comparison. > And there's a difference between defending freedom and hating it, but I think it's clear you already know that as well. Well, yeah--defending freedom usually requires us to deal with real facts critically and to be able to engage with our opponents directly instead of putting words in their mouths.
- dang 9y ago
  > Why do you hate freedom? Would you please (re)-read the site rules and follow them when commenting here? We've had to ask you this repeatedly. If you continue flouting the site rules, we're going to end up banning you. Political/ideological/etc. flamewars are not what this site is for. Kindly take them elsewhere. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - angersock 9y ago
    The parent submission (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15173354 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15173354) is entitled "We Are At War For A Free And Open Internet". What, exactly, did you expect in the discussion? You continually flag and hide and dismiss a lot of my stuff when it gets under your skin, and I'm as tired of it as you are. > we're going to end up banning you. If you want to ban me go ahead and do it--be a bully, purge another user pour encourager les autres since you don't agree with them. Afterwards, feel free to talk about it with the rest of your friends and colleagues and congratulate each other over how progressive and open-minded you are.