5 ms·

In my opinion, some of the policies of the Republican Party seem downright evil to me. Restrict the civil rights of gays and Muslims (Trump himself stated that

In my opinion, some of the policies of the Republican Party seem downright evil to me. Restrict the civil rights of gays and Muslims (Trump himself stated that he was going to start a Muslim ban, he asked people to make it legal but the intent was very clear and stated by Trump several times: Muslim ban). They also want to restrict information on the internet which seems pretty evil to me (modern day book banning). They want to deport kids who have lived in the US their whole lives through no fault of their own.

austenallred 9y ago
I don't agree with those policies, but can you imagine any non-evil reason a rational person would hold those beliefs?
- mfringel 9y ago
  Define "rational". If you mean "Can someone justify those beliefs to themselves through a logical chain, while allowing for personal belief systems", then yes, of course, there are plenty of non-evil reasons a rational person could hold those. However, you can still have irreconcilable differences in belief systems at an existential level.
- CalChris 9y ago
  No, I can't. And it really isn't up to my imagination either. If this 'rational' person has a 'rational' argument for wanting to ban Muslims or gays then let's hear it because I can't imagine it. Yes, you will get pushback on that.
  - combo432 9y ago
    It wasn't a Muslim ban. The ban didn't include Malaysia, Indonesia, or Algeria for instance and many other Muslim countries. There were 6 countries on the travel ban list. There are 50 Muslim-majority countries in the world.
    - CalChris 9y ago
      Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on That's a quote.
      - Agustus 9y ago
        That is not a quote, that is a paraphrasing of whatever the original statement was.
        CalChris 9y ago
        That's a quote: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/promise/1401/establish-ban-muslims-entering-us/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer... You may not like that fact but it remains a fact. Extra points for referring to himself in the third person because, you know, Obama was so arrogant.
    - zimpenfish 9y ago
      POTUS himself called it a Muslim ban several times, especially when asking Giuliani how to accomplish a Muslim ban legally.
- taylodl 9y ago
  Fear. Fear of the other. Fear of a widening disparity between the haves and have-nots - and they're increasingly in the have-not category. Fear that their children won't be able to do as well or better than they did. Fear. And Donald Trump expertly capitalized on that fear while Hillary chose to ignore it. Trump won. I'm not convinced we progressives/liberals fully understand this because we're still ignoring this fear.
  - AmIFirstToThink 9y ago
    Just Fear, or fear of risks materializing? The risk materialized for victims of terrorism. The risk materialized for victims of drug gangs. The risk materialized for victims of illegal aliens committing crimes including identity theft. The risk materialized for victims of outsourcing. The risk materialized of well paying manufacturing jobs disappearing. It's wasn't fear, it was the materialized risk. Many voted for Obama overcoming fear, choosing hope. But they realized you can't just choose hope, you have to go and bend reality to be what you want it to be. And they put a bend in flow of reality, choosing Trump. The elite fail to sympathize with their own countrymen in peril, because having compassion for your fellow countryman means you were being a 'xenophobe'. That label is not very vogue in elite circles. I, for one, am glad that the risk of Trump being elected materialized.
- dwaltrip 9y ago
  The only widespread reason that I have seen for restricting the rights of gay folks is one of ignorance fueled by religious dogma. This was a common view at the churches I attended during my youth. I wouldn't call this "evil", but I would call it harmful.
- plandis 9y ago
  Logical reason for wanting to restrict the rights of gay people and ban all Muslims? I'm all ears, I literally cannot think of a rational reason for supporting such policies.
  - narrowrail 9y ago
    The guy is a pathological liar, there is not one proposal I've seen that would, "restrict the rights of gay people" or "ban all Muslims."
JSONwebtoken 9y ago
Honestly, none of those things matter to me. I vote on the second amendment and fiscal policy. As a libertarian, I am an advocate for civil rights, clean energy, equality, and so forth. I care about those issues, but you can't be a moderate without making idealogical compromises. Net neutrality was a disappointment, but myself and others in the tech community will learn to deal with the inconvenience. The plight of illegal immigrants and the "religion of peace" has zero relevance to me, I simply don't care enough one way or the other to vote in favor of them.
otp124 9y ago
Let's rewind a bit of history and look back to what the Democratic Party did to civil rights and a race for the next 100+ years after a bold Republican emancipated the slaves. People everywhere can do horrible, horrible things. Read your history books, and try hard to prevent history from repeating itself.
- Can_Not 9y ago
  Let's not pretend as if political parties are immutable over periods of time such as 150 years.
AmIFirstToThink 9y ago
>They want to deport kids who have lived in the US their whole lives through no fault of their own. Why are all white people being asked to pay for some white slave owners? Why are they being punished for the sins of their forefathers? No white person alive now, ever owned slaves, it is illegal. No black person alive now, was ever enslaved, it is illegal. Are you giving a clean sheet to all white "kids" because slavery was no fault of their own? Ben Affleck's ancestors were slave owners, does that mean Ben should be punished and have to pay reparations? >They want to deport kids who have lived in the US their whole lives through no fault of their own. The interpretation for someone considering crossing border illegally: If you can sneak in with a less than 10 year old child into USA, stay hidden for 5 years or so, you can claim that the kid grew up in USA, is in USA for no fault of her own, and her family of undocumented parents should get to stay as well since USA doesn't want to separate families, which means we are all safe. That's Amnesty for entire family. I would be safe. Totally worth giving lives savings and taking loans to pay the human traffickers, there is risk of death and rape, but after that ordeal we would be safe. May be I will carry some drugs on me to pay for the trip. Tell me why that interpretation is wrong? You sympathize with the well-off, but still illegal, DACA recipients in USA. I am concerned about that family in South America starting the journey where enslavement and rape is real certainty. >Muslim ban Campaign rhetoric vs. reality. See his Saudi visit. That was a way to explain extreme vetting. > Civil rights of gay Trump is the first USA President who came to office while supporting Marriage Equality for gay and lesbian. Hillary and Obama declined Marriage equality for political gains. I see this as a pure power play: Let me do what I want to do without any questioning, because somebody somewhere somehow, by some interpretation, is being oppressed.
- closeparen 9y ago
  Do you seriously think there's any moral correspondence whatsoever between trying to make a living in the US against its will, and owning/importing slaves?
  - AmIFirstToThink 9y ago
    A person alive today, who happens to be white, never owned slaves in his life. Why is left hell bent on punishing that white person for some crimes that that person's ancestors, may have done. Most whites never owned slaved even in those days. It was white people who fought for and paid with their lives ending slavery. Left wants to hold all whites responsible for crimes of slavery. Left wants to give clean sheet to DACA recipients for crimes of their parents. Why do you want to hold kids responsible for parents crimes when it comes to white people?

austenallred 9y ago

I don't agree with those policies, but can you imagine any non-evil reason a rational person would hold those beliefs?

mfringel 9y ago
Define "rational". If you mean "Can someone justify those beliefs to themselves through a logical chain, while allowing for personal belief systems", then yes, of course, there are plenty of non-evil reasons a rational person could hold those. However, you can still have irreconcilable differences in belief systems at an existential level.
CalChris 9y ago
No, I can't. And it really isn't up to my imagination either. If this 'rational' person has a 'rational' argument for wanting to ban Muslims or gays then let's hear it because I can't imagine it. Yes, you will get pushback on that.
- combo432 9y ago
  It wasn't a Muslim ban. The ban didn't include Malaysia, Indonesia, or Algeria for instance and many other Muslim countries. There were 6 countries on the travel ban list. There are 50 Muslim-majority countries in the world.
  - CalChris 9y ago
    Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on That's a quote.
    - Agustus 9y ago
      That is not a quote, that is a paraphrasing of whatever the original statement was.
      - CalChris 9y ago
        That's a quote: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/promise/1401/establish-ban-muslims-entering-us/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer... You may not like that fact but it remains a fact. Extra points for referring to himself in the third person because, you know, Obama was so arrogant.
  - zimpenfish 9y ago
    POTUS himself called it a Muslim ban several times, especially when asking Giuliani how to accomplish a Muslim ban legally.
taylodl 9y ago
Fear. Fear of the other. Fear of a widening disparity between the haves and have-nots - and they're increasingly in the have-not category. Fear that their children won't be able to do as well or better than they did. Fear. And Donald Trump expertly capitalized on that fear while Hillary chose to ignore it. Trump won. I'm not convinced we progressives/liberals fully understand this because we're still ignoring this fear.
- AmIFirstToThink 9y ago
  Just Fear, or fear of risks materializing? The risk materialized for victims of terrorism. The risk materialized for victims of drug gangs. The risk materialized for victims of illegal aliens committing crimes including identity theft. The risk materialized for victims of outsourcing. The risk materialized of well paying manufacturing jobs disappearing. It's wasn't fear, it was the materialized risk. Many voted for Obama overcoming fear, choosing hope. But they realized you can't just choose hope, you have to go and bend reality to be what you want it to be. And they put a bend in flow of reality, choosing Trump. The elite fail to sympathize with their own countrymen in peril, because having compassion for your fellow countryman means you were being a 'xenophobe'. That label is not very vogue in elite circles. I, for one, am glad that the risk of Trump being elected materialized.
dwaltrip 9y ago
The only widespread reason that I have seen for restricting the rights of gay folks is one of ignorance fueled by religious dogma. This was a common view at the churches I attended during my youth. I wouldn't call this "evil", but I would call it harmful.
plandis 9y ago
Logical reason for wanting to restrict the rights of gay people and ban all Muslims? I'm all ears, I literally cannot think of a rational reason for supporting such policies.
- narrowrail 9y ago
  The guy is a pathological liar, there is not one proposal I've seen that would, "restrict the rights of gay people" or "ban all Muslims."

JSONwebtoken 9y ago

Honestly, none of those things matter to me. I vote on the second amendment and fiscal policy. As a libertarian, I am an advocate for civil rights, clean energy, equality, and so forth. I care about those issues, but you can't be a moderate without making idealogical compromises. Net neutrality was a disappointment, but myself and others in the tech community will learn to deal with the inconvenience. The plight of illegal immigrants and the "religion of peace" has zero relevance to me, I simply don't care enough one way or the other to vote in favor of them.

otp124 9y ago

Let's rewind a bit of history and look back to what the Democratic Party did to civil rights and a race for the next 100+ years after a bold Republican emancipated the slaves. People everywhere can do horrible, horrible things. Read your history books, and try hard to prevent history from repeating itself.

Can_Not 9y ago
Let's not pretend as if political parties are immutable over periods of time such as 150 years.

AmIFirstToThink 9y ago

>They want to deport kids who have lived in the US their whole lives through no fault of their own. Why are all white people being asked to pay for some white slave owners? Why are they being punished for the sins of their forefathers? No white person alive now, ever owned slaves, it is illegal. No black person alive now, was ever enslaved, it is illegal. Are you giving a clean sheet to all white "kids" because slavery was no fault of their own? Ben Affleck's ancestors were slave owners, does that mean Ben should be punished and have to pay reparations? >They want to deport kids who have lived in the US their whole lives through no fault of their own. The interpretation for someone considering crossing border illegally: If you can sneak in with a less than 10 year old child into USA, stay hidden for 5 years or so, you can claim that the kid grew up in USA, is in USA for no fault of her own, and her family of undocumented parents should get to stay as well since USA doesn't want to separate families, which means we are all safe. That's Amnesty for entire family. I would be safe. Totally worth giving lives savings and taking loans to pay the human traffickers, there is risk of death and rape, but after that ordeal we would be safe. May be I will carry some drugs on me to pay for the trip. Tell me why that interpretation is wrong? You sympathize with the well-off, but still illegal, DACA recipients in USA. I am concerned about that family in South America starting the journey where enslavement and rape is real certainty. >Muslim ban Campaign rhetoric vs. reality. See his Saudi visit. That was a way to explain extreme vetting. > Civil rights of gay Trump is the first USA President who came to office while supporting Marriage Equality for gay and lesbian. Hillary and Obama declined Marriage equality for political gains. I see this as a pure power play: Let me do what I want to do without any questioning, because somebody somewhere somehow, by some interpretation, is being oppressed.

closeparen 9y ago
Do you seriously think there's any moral correspondence whatsoever between trying to make a living in the US against its will, and owning/importing slaves?
- AmIFirstToThink 9y ago
  A person alive today, who happens to be white, never owned slaves in his life. Why is left hell bent on punishing that white person for some crimes that that person's ancestors, may have done. Most whites never owned slaved even in those days. It was white people who fought for and paid with their lives ending slavery. Left wants to hold all whites responsible for crimes of slavery. Left wants to give clean sheet to DACA recipients for crimes of their parents. Why do you want to hold kids responsible for parents crimes when it comes to white people?