5 ms·

OK, since this is being discussed here: has anybody found a use case for the Estonian e-Residency? I tried to actually register a company and a bank account and

OK, since this is being discussed here: has anybody found a use case for the Estonian e-Residency? I tried to actually register a company and a bank account and gave up after trying for several hours.

smcl 9y ago
What was the problem?
- donquichotte 9y ago
  I just could not find out how to do it. Here [0] they mentioned that from 2017, it should be possible to open an account without physically going to Estonia. Judging from the comments below, there are also other confused e-Residency card holders with the same issue. [0] https://e-residency.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205283661-Choose-your-bank https://e-residency.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205283661-...
  - provost 9y ago
    Have you tried calling the local Estonian embassy/consulate? Not sure which country you're in..
  - SyneRyder 9y ago
    It looks like that's something they hoped to have in place for 2017, but still is not possible. From the official website FAQ at https://e-resident.gov.ee/faq/ https://e-resident.gov.ee/faq/ "Visit the bank office in person and apply for a bank account. The bank will want to know how you are connected to Estonia and how you plan to use the account. You will need to bring your e-residency card along."
  - emerongi 9y ago
    Registering a business should not be a problem. In terms of opening a bank account, SEB now offers a way to do that through a video meeting: http://www.seb.ee/eng/remote-advisory http://www.seb.ee/eng/remote-advisory, although right now if you're not yet a client, you can not use it. They promise to open it up for new clients as well, but no ETA I think.
pavlov 9y ago
Registering a company remotely should work. That's the easy part for Estonia to implement because the company registry is a government office. Opening a bank account is more difficult because it's up to individual banks to make the decision to allow remote account holders. Banks are private companies, and government can't easily force their hand without the big hammer of passing some legislation in the Estonian parliament (which would then also need to be vetted for compatibility with pre-existing EU law). In my experience, European banks seem to go out of their way to make it difficult to open an account. I've had bank accounts in Finland, France and USA, and the last one was a breeze compared to the others.
- hdhzy 9y ago
  Holvi is open to Estonian eResidents, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15019249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15019249
  - pavlov 9y ago
    That's very cool, thanks for the info!
MrDisposable 9y ago
(Posted under a throwaway account). My use case: as a Russian citizen living in Russia but planning to release an app, I'd much rather prefer doing it via an EU company than via a Russian company. First, there's a lot of nasty stuff happens to business owners who don't have proper "protection" (their businesses get "transferred" to the right people and they themselves go to jail on phony charges for not wanting to sell their business for peanuts). Second, the situation in Russia will definitely get worse, and when that happens, the problem I described above will also get worse. I just don't want to expose a business generating revenue in USD in Russia. And if it gets exposed (which it will, due to the automatic information exchanges between jurisdictions), I will have an additional barrier of protection against unwanted "transfers" -- it's easy to do to a Russian business, but it's much harder with foreign companies. And third, selling an app while being listed in app stores as a Russian company definitely won't improve my first impressions, given all the hype about Russian hackers (there's even an example of it in this thread!) By the way, if you want to register a company, go with a provder like LeapIN.eu -- they're fantastic.
- soloadventurer 9y ago
  Under Russian tax law, a company is a tax resident in Russia if (a) it is incorporated in Russia, (b) its management and central control are in Russia, or (c) if a treaty deems it to be in Russia. Estonia has no tax treaty with Russia, so (c) is not relevant. In your case, (a) is also not relevant. Point (b) is more interesting: do you live in Russia and exercise management of your Estonian company in Russia? If yes, then you own a Russian-resident company and Russian corporate tax law is applicable. You are required to prepare financial statements and file corporate tax returns in Russia. Presumably there's also many foreign ownership disclosure requirements. Please consider discussing your case with a tax advisor if you have not already done so. I would never ever easily recommend a citizen of an OECD country incorporate a company overseas without first thoroughly researching disclosure requirements and tax law. Please be careful as tax laws generally are of the "go straight to jail" type. I wish this Estonian e-residency program would contain more warnings in red about the significant impact such a foreign company will have on a shareholder. This applies to Atlas as well--non-US-residents need to be extremely careful with US corporations as there's a good chance they will not actually be resident in the US.
soloadventurer 9y ago
In many OECD countries, if you, a resident of a state, incorporates a company in another state, and you control that company from your home country, your company in the foreign jurisdiction will be deemed a resident in your home country and require tax returns in your home country. I am perplexed by the number of people setting up businesses outside their country, not realizing the numerous disclosures and extremely complicated tax planning that comes with it.

smcl 9y ago

What was the problem?

donquichotte 9y ago
I just could not find out how to do it. Here [0] they mentioned that from 2017, it should be possible to open an account without physically going to Estonia. Judging from the comments below, there are also other confused e-Residency card holders with the same issue. [0] https://e-residency.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205283661-Choose-your-bank https://e-residency.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/205283661-...
- provost 9y ago
  Have you tried calling the local Estonian embassy/consulate? Not sure which country you're in..
- SyneRyder 9y ago
  It looks like that's something they hoped to have in place for 2017, but still is not possible. From the official website FAQ at https://e-resident.gov.ee/faq/ https://e-resident.gov.ee/faq/ "Visit the bank office in person and apply for a bank account. The bank will want to know how you are connected to Estonia and how you plan to use the account. You will need to bring your e-residency card along."
- emerongi 9y ago
  Registering a business should not be a problem. In terms of opening a bank account, SEB now offers a way to do that through a video meeting: http://www.seb.ee/eng/remote-advisory http://www.seb.ee/eng/remote-advisory, although right now if you're not yet a client, you can not use it. They promise to open it up for new clients as well, but no ETA I think.

pavlov 9y ago

Registering a company remotely should work. That's the easy part for Estonia to implement because the company registry is a government office. Opening a bank account is more difficult because it's up to individual banks to make the decision to allow remote account holders. Banks are private companies, and government can't easily force their hand without the big hammer of passing some legislation in the Estonian parliament (which would then also need to be vetted for compatibility with pre-existing EU law). In my experience, European banks seem to go out of their way to make it difficult to open an account. I've had bank accounts in Finland, France and USA, and the last one was a breeze compared to the others.

hdhzy 9y ago
Holvi is open to Estonian eResidents, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15019249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15019249
- pavlov 9y ago
  That's very cool, thanks for the info!

MrDisposable 9y ago

(Posted under a throwaway account). My use case: as a Russian citizen living in Russia but planning to release an app, I'd much rather prefer doing it via an EU company than via a Russian company. First, there's a lot of nasty stuff happens to business owners who don't have proper "protection" (their businesses get "transferred" to the right people and they themselves go to jail on phony charges for not wanting to sell their business for peanuts). Second, the situation in Russia will definitely get worse, and when that happens, the problem I described above will also get worse. I just don't want to expose a business generating revenue in USD in Russia. And if it gets exposed (which it will, due to the automatic information exchanges between jurisdictions), I will have an additional barrier of protection against unwanted "transfers" -- it's easy to do to a Russian business, but it's much harder with foreign companies. And third, selling an app while being listed in app stores as a Russian company definitely won't improve my first impressions, given all the hype about Russian hackers (there's even an example of it in this thread!) By the way, if you want to register a company, go with a provder like LeapIN.eu -- they're fantastic.

soloadventurer 9y ago
Under Russian tax law, a company is a tax resident in Russia if (a) it is incorporated in Russia, (b) its management and central control are in Russia, or (c) if a treaty deems it to be in Russia. Estonia has no tax treaty with Russia, so (c) is not relevant. In your case, (a) is also not relevant. Point (b) is more interesting: do you live in Russia and exercise management of your Estonian company in Russia? If yes, then you own a Russian-resident company and Russian corporate tax law is applicable. You are required to prepare financial statements and file corporate tax returns in Russia. Presumably there's also many foreign ownership disclosure requirements. Please consider discussing your case with a tax advisor if you have not already done so. I would never ever easily recommend a citizen of an OECD country incorporate a company overseas without first thoroughly researching disclosure requirements and tax law. Please be careful as tax laws generally are of the "go straight to jail" type. I wish this Estonian e-residency program would contain more warnings in red about the significant impact such a foreign company will have on a shareholder. This applies to Atlas as well--non-US-residents need to be extremely careful with US corporations as there's a good chance they will not actually be resident in the US.

soloadventurer 9y ago

In many OECD countries, if you, a resident of a state, incorporates a company in another state, and you control that company from your home country, your company in the foreign jurisdiction will be deemed a resident in your home country and require tax returns in your home country. I am perplexed by the number of people setting up businesses outside their country, not realizing the numerous disclosures and extremely complicated tax planning that comes with it.