5 ms·

Booth Babes Don't Wear Glasses

17 points by lmacvittie 16y ago

jgrahamc 16y ago
When I first started going to computer trade shows (in the 1980s) the booth babes were strippers. That was, at least, an honest approach. Personally, I like looking at attractive women, I guess I was wired that way, but I'd be happy to have no booth babes at these shows. They are an anachronism and can't provide any useful information (which as what I'm at the trade show for, in the first place). And while we're on the topic of men reacting to attractive women. Can we please stop with the "men don't make passes at girls that wear glasses" and "gentleman prefer blondes" nonsense? The women that turn my head tend to be glasses wearing brunettes. People have different visions of what's attractive. But I do agree that there are men (idiots) who can't see that there are intelligent women. But please, women, don't tar all men with that brush.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- Jun8 16y ago
  So is your suggestion, based on 30 year-old anecdotal evidence, that they are strippers now, too. If not, why do you think the current approach (using a non-stripper as a BB) is dishonest? Do you think all attractive females used in advertising should be strippers for it to be honest? Should Danica Patrick change her profession? Sorry, maybe I come across too strong but the BB ~ stripper analogy just gets to me. You are doing the same sin that you are condemning, namely judging people by the cover.
  - dinedal 16y ago
    Unless, you know, they actually were hired from the local strip club near the conference.
    - Jun8 16y ago
      AFAIK, recently that was just one incident like that at OSCON. Do you have many more examples of BBS being hired from "strip clubs near the conference"? If so, I'll create another user and downvote myself.
      - eli 16y ago
        I once worked for a place that just put an ad for female models on the local craigslist. I don't want to assume to much, but I'm pretty sure at least some of the models who showed up were used to being asked to do a lot more than stand in a booth for an hour.
philk 16y ago
I'm not sure if I'm in the minority here but I always find the concept of booth babes awkward as hell. Just the idea of interacting with someone who's been paid to endure my company seems rather unpleasant.
- ant5 16y ago
  I concur; nothing will put me off a booth more than the feeling that they've hired the conference equivalent of a stripper. What's your name? What do you do? Would you like a dance? What's your name? What do you do? Would you like to find out more about our F5 internet appliances? Being sold something by an attractive woman with an ulterior motive raises my hackles and causes me to put up my guard. I'm certainly not going to be receptive to the sales pitch.
- jgrahamc 16y ago
  I agree. In the early 1990s I was working at a company where I spent a lot of time on the road with sales guys. One time I had to take a customer to a strip club as part of landing a deal. Both the customer and the sales guy (who was going to expense the trip) were really happy to be there. As part of being a team player, I had to have a lap dance. Sitting in a chair having a woman shove her breasts in my face after paying her was simply horrid. I remember feeling physically sick.
  - eli 16y ago
    Yeah, that's pretty awful. Probably why it's illegal.
    - goatforce5 16y ago
      Strip clubs and lap dances are legal in plenty of places. Heck, even escort services and prostitution are legal in some places.
      - eli 16y ago
        Pressuring an employee to participate in a lap dance, however, is not.
timf 16y ago
This post is not actually about a "booth babe problem", it's making the point that they are a red herring in discussions about women and technology. "It’s about the reaction of men to a technically competent woman, no matter what she’s wearing. It’s the surprise and the shock in their expression and voice. It’s about the assumption that no woman is technically competent – at a trade show or on a conference call. That’s at the heart of this debate and others like it, and whether booth babes are present or not is unlikely to have an impact on those assumptions."
- tomjen3 16y ago
  The reason one has that reaction to a woman is the same reason a person look strangely at a rock he has fallen over when he realize it is a diamond: Because it happens fucking far too seldom.
  - timf 16y ago
    I interact with women in technology enough for it to not be surprising. At conferences and meetings when people act strangely meeting my technical and capable female colleagues, it suggests to me that the person is inexperienced rather than making me sad for my colleagues. It suggests the same to my colleagues as well.
  - Jun8 16y ago
    Really!? Then, you definitely have not been around (or maybe from outside the US where mileage may vary). Just go to any big tech company campus, e.g. Google, Apple, Microsoft, sit on a bench and observe. My guess is that 10-15% of any large company's tech-heavy departments (labs, etc.) are women. Now, that is more probable than a diamond falling on your head.
    - Tichy 16y ago
      In normal life I don't hang around on the campus of Google or Microsoft a lot. Of course people you meet there are likely to be more tech-savvy than the average population. If you go to a diamond mine, odds of stumbling across a diamond are probably also slightly increased.
telemachos 16y ago
Last summer at OSCON Kirrily Robert gave a keynote which discussed gender and open source projects. The keynote itself was interesting (I only read about it from slides - didn't see it), and an O'Reilly Radar write-up about it led to a long and varied set of comments about "booth babes" and girls hired/invited to socialize at parties. For anyone interested, here's some links: http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/07/oscon-standing-out-in-the-crow.html http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/07/oscon-standing-out-in-the-c... http://infotrope.net/blog/2009/07/25/standing-out-in-the-crowd-my-oscon-keynote/ http://infotrope.net/blog/2009/07/25/standing-out-in-the-cro...
neutronicus 16y ago
I am surprised at rare occurrences, and will continue to be so. The author is treated the way technical men have learned, through social pressure, to treat average women. The intersection of the sets of women who are technically competent, and want to converse with me about technology is small. I've spent 22 years learning that the average woman will disdain me if I so much as open my mouth about some of my interests. I'm sorry, I can't magically intuit for which few it becomes prerequisite as a demonstration of respect.
- efsavage 16y ago
  This is key. The number of encounters with women where my technical aptitude was an uninteresting quirk outnumbers those where it was a conversation point by probably 100:1 if not more. With men, that ratio is far lower. I think this whole situation is a very slowly unraveling catch-22 where women aren't interested in tech because they don't feel welcome, and they aren't welcomed because they aren't interested. These days, tech is so pervasive (even the girliest-of-girls probably has a very powerful computer in their purse by way of their phone), that I think it will work it's way loose over time. It can't happen fast enough, IMO, it's hard enough already to find talented people, I'd like to see the pool doubled.
- rada 16y ago
  The author is not talking about average women though. She is talking about professional women attending technology conferences. Also, I am not sure why you feel particularly pressured not to talk shop in front of women. As a female programmer I shut up about technology when talking to an average guy just as much as I would talking to a woman, or for that matter, just as much as anyone in any field avoids talking shop to people of any gender outside their particular knowledge domain. I really feel that you are being a bit disingenuous when you say that you can't "magically intuit for which few it becomes prerequisite" to talk about techie stuff. Surely it's pretty easy to intuit a person's interest at a technology event.

17 points by lmacvittie 16y ago

When I first started going to computer trade shows (in the 1980s) the booth babes were strippers. That was, at least, an honest approach. Personally, I like looking at attractive women, I guess I was wired that way, but I'd be happy to have no booth babes at these shows. They are an anachronism and can't provide any useful information (which as what I'm at the trade show for, in the first place). And while we're on the topic of men reacting to attractive women. Can we please stop with the "men don't make passes at girls that wear glasses" and "gentleman prefer blondes" nonsense? The women that turn my head tend to be glasses wearing brunettes. People have different visions of what's attractive. But I do agree that there are men (idiots) who can't see that there are intelligent women. But please, women, don't tar all men with that brush.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
Jun8 16y ago
So is your suggestion, based on 30 year-old anecdotal evidence, that they are strippers now, too. If not, why do you think the current approach (using a non-stripper as a BB) is dishonest? Do you think all attractive females used in advertising should be strippers for it to be honest? Should Danica Patrick change her profession? Sorry, maybe I come across too strong but the BB ~ stripper analogy just gets to me. You are doing the same sin that you are condemning, namely judging people by the cover.
- dinedal 16y ago
  Unless, you know, they actually were hired from the local strip club near the conference.
  - Jun8 16y ago
    AFAIK, recently that was just one incident like that at OSCON. Do you have many more examples of BBS being hired from "strip clubs near the conference"? If so, I'll create another user and downvote myself.
    - eli 16y ago
      I once worked for a place that just put an ad for female models on the local craigslist. I don't want to assume to much, but I'm pretty sure at least some of the models who showed up were used to being asked to do a lot more than stand in a booth for an hour.

philk 16y ago

I'm not sure if I'm in the minority here but I always find the concept of booth babes awkward as hell. Just the idea of interacting with someone who's been paid to endure my company seems rather unpleasant.

ant5 16y ago
I concur; nothing will put me off a booth more than the feeling that they've hired the conference equivalent of a stripper. What's your name? What do you do? Would you like a dance? What's your name? What do you do? Would you like to find out more about our F5 internet appliances? Being sold something by an attractive woman with an ulterior motive raises my hackles and causes me to put up my guard. I'm certainly not going to be receptive to the sales pitch.
jgrahamc 16y ago
I agree. In the early 1990s I was working at a company where I spent a lot of time on the road with sales guys. One time I had to take a customer to a strip club as part of landing a deal. Both the customer and the sales guy (who was going to expense the trip) were really happy to be there. As part of being a team player, I had to have a lap dance. Sitting in a chair having a woman shove her breasts in my face after paying her was simply horrid. I remember feeling physically sick.
- eli 16y ago
  Yeah, that's pretty awful. Probably why it's illegal.
  - goatforce5 16y ago
    Strip clubs and lap dances are legal in plenty of places. Heck, even escort services and prostitution are legal in some places.
    - eli 16y ago
      Pressuring an employee to participate in a lap dance, however, is not.

timf 16y ago

This post is not actually about a "booth babe problem", it's making the point that they are a red herring in discussions about women and technology. "It’s about the reaction of men to a technically competent woman, no matter what she’s wearing. It’s the surprise and the shock in their expression and voice. It’s about the assumption that no woman is technically competent – at a trade show or on a conference call. That’s at the heart of this debate and others like it, and whether booth babes are present or not is unlikely to have an impact on those assumptions."

tomjen3 16y ago
The reason one has that reaction to a woman is the same reason a person look strangely at a rock he has fallen over when he realize it is a diamond: Because it happens fucking far too seldom.
- timf 16y ago
  I interact with women in technology enough for it to not be surprising. At conferences and meetings when people act strangely meeting my technical and capable female colleagues, it suggests to me that the person is inexperienced rather than making me sad for my colleagues. It suggests the same to my colleagues as well.
- Jun8 16y ago
  Really!? Then, you definitely have not been around (or maybe from outside the US where mileage may vary). Just go to any big tech company campus, e.g. Google, Apple, Microsoft, sit on a bench and observe. My guess is that 10-15% of any large company's tech-heavy departments (labs, etc.) are women. Now, that is more probable than a diamond falling on your head.
  - Tichy 16y ago
    In normal life I don't hang around on the campus of Google or Microsoft a lot. Of course people you meet there are likely to be more tech-savvy than the average population. If you go to a diamond mine, odds of stumbling across a diamond are probably also slightly increased.

telemachos 16y ago

Last summer at OSCON Kirrily Robert gave a keynote which discussed gender and open source projects. The keynote itself was interesting (I only read about it from slides - didn't see it), and an O'Reilly Radar write-up about it led to a long and varied set of comments about "booth babes" and girls hired/invited to socialize at parties. For anyone interested, here's some links: http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/07/oscon-standing-out-in-the-crow.html http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/07/oscon-standing-out-in-the-c... http://infotrope.net/blog/2009/07/25/standing-out-in-the-crowd-my-oscon-keynote/ http://infotrope.net/blog/2009/07/25/standing-out-in-the-cro...

neutronicus 16y ago

I am surprised at rare occurrences, and will continue to be so. The author is treated the way technical men have learned, through social pressure, to treat average women. The intersection of the sets of women who are technically competent, and want to converse with me about technology is small. I've spent 22 years learning that the average woman will disdain me if I so much as open my mouth about some of my interests. I'm sorry, I can't magically intuit for which few it becomes prerequisite as a demonstration of respect.

efsavage 16y ago
This is key. The number of encounters with women where my technical aptitude was an uninteresting quirk outnumbers those where it was a conversation point by probably 100:1 if not more. With men, that ratio is far lower. I think this whole situation is a very slowly unraveling catch-22 where women aren't interested in tech because they don't feel welcome, and they aren't welcomed because they aren't interested. These days, tech is so pervasive (even the girliest-of-girls probably has a very powerful computer in their purse by way of their phone), that I think it will work it's way loose over time. It can't happen fast enough, IMO, it's hard enough already to find talented people, I'd like to see the pool doubled.
rada 16y ago
The author is not talking about average women though. She is talking about professional women attending technology conferences. Also, I am not sure why you feel particularly pressured not to talk shop in front of women. As a female programmer I shut up about technology when talking to an average guy just as much as I would talking to a woman, or for that matter, just as much as anyone in any field avoids talking shop to people of any gender outside their particular knowledge domain. I really feel that you are being a bit disingenuous when you say that you can't "magically intuit for which few it becomes prerequisite" to talk about techie stuff. Surely it's pretty easy to intuit a person's interest at a technology event.