3 ms·

If there's one neologism I'd love to get rid of, it's the use of "toxic" to describe speech that you dislike. It's all over this thread. Think about what the m

by pamqzl 9y ago

If there's one neologism I'd love to get rid of, it's the use of "toxic" to describe speech that you dislike. It's all over this thread. Think about what the metaphor of "toxicity" does for speech. By all means, you can find speech to be disagreeable, or annoying, or factually or morally wrong. I read all sorts of things that I disagree with, and some that I find actively annoying. But the metaphor of "toxicity" implies something more -- that these ideas are actually dangerous, and some kind of public health hazard. If something is "toxic" then you don't just dislike it, you need to actively protect yourself from being contaminated with it, and it activates your disgust reflexes. After all, better to be safe than sorry when it comes to toxins, right? Basically, the idea that ideas can be "toxic" seems to be a roundabout way of inviting censors to come in and save us all from the danger of having to read things that we don't like. Let's ditch the word "toxic" for things that aren't actually harmful chemicals, and learn to deal with the fact that things we don't like on the internet are best dealt with by not reading them.

pjc50 9y ago
> best dealt with by not reading them If A is discussing with B their plans for my murder, or creating fictional dossiers of alleged crimes of mine and sending them to police and my employer, or sharing compromising photos without my consent, then ignoring them does not work. Less hyperbolically, it's only safe to ignore the speech of others against you so long as it has no chance of having an effect. Whether that's through legislation or street violence. Toxicity is exactly the right word for hate speech, because it can cause hate to spread out in ways that cause real injury or death.
- 1787 9y ago
  You can't just try and smudge the line between speech integral to criminal conduct and defamation and other speech. The way we avoid sliding down the slope is by requiring an immediate demonstrable harm - any fuzzy argument of the "can cause" variety is too easily applied.
chasing 9y ago
Toxic != controversial. Toxic means poisonous. Toxicity in communities spoils the community because people place bickering, verbal fighting, and beating other people at insults over communicating ideas, debating, and respecting one another. It damages and will eventually kill a community as people get upset and then tune out and go other places. And if they don't feel they can go elsewhere, they'll feel stuck, wounded, and bitter. Hate speech is an example of toxic behavior. At least, that's the reason awful people use it: It's a disruption. It distracts people and angers people so they act out in their own possibly negative ways. It's the whole MO of people like Mile and Ann Coulter: Say offensive things, but then attempt take the high road when people get visibly upset. It's a pattern that can quickly convert otherwise healthy communities into group of screaming upset people. That's toxic. So, yes, "toxic" is a great word. And communities should protect themselves from toxic behavior.

by pamqzl 9y ago

pjc50 9y ago

> best dealt with by not reading them If A is discussing with B their plans for my murder, or creating fictional dossiers of alleged crimes of mine and sending them to police and my employer, or sharing compromising photos without my consent, then ignoring them does not work. Less hyperbolically, it's only safe to ignore the speech of others against you so long as it has no chance of having an effect. Whether that's through legislation or street violence. Toxicity is exactly the right word for hate speech, because it can cause hate to spread out in ways that cause real injury or death.

1787 9y ago
You can't just try and smudge the line between speech integral to criminal conduct and defamation and other speech. The way we avoid sliding down the slope is by requiring an immediate demonstrable harm - any fuzzy argument of the "can cause" variety is too easily applied.

chasing 9y ago

Toxic != controversial. Toxic means poisonous. Toxicity in communities spoils the community because people place bickering, verbal fighting, and beating other people at insults over communicating ideas, debating, and respecting one another. It damages and will eventually kill a community as people get upset and then tune out and go other places. And if they don't feel they can go elsewhere, they'll feel stuck, wounded, and bitter. Hate speech is an example of toxic behavior. At least, that's the reason awful people use it: It's a disruption. It distracts people and angers people so they act out in their own possibly negative ways. It's the whole MO of people like Mile and Ann Coulter: Say offensive things, but then attempt take the high road when people get visibly upset. It's a pattern that can quickly convert otherwise healthy communities into group of screaming upset people. That's toxic. So, yes, "toxic" is a great word. And communities should protect themselves from toxic behavior.