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I only speak from experience. I've been called a Nazi scum for advocating civil behavior, refraining from violence and doxxing, and siding with free speech for

I only speak from experience. I've been called a Nazi scum for advocating civil behavior, refraining from violence and doxxing, and siding with free speech for everyone. People have even straight up assumed I was a (poorly hidden) KKK member because my user name has the word "wizard" in it.

enraged_camel 9y ago
The thing is, many people conflate Freedom of Speech with free speech. The former is the constitutionally protected freedom from government persecution (e.g. imprisonment) based on what you say. The latter is the misguided belief that you should be allowed to say whatever you want in public without consequence. I strongly believe it is morally wrong to side with people who support genocide, and whose predecessors have committed genocide. It is morally wrong to suggest they should be allowed (by other members of the public) to continue touting and spreading their hateful, vile ideologies. Siding with such people doesn't make you a Nazi, but it's still pretty bad. They do have the right, i.e. Freedom of Speech, to demonstrate without government interference. They absolutely do not have the right, morally or otherwise, to demonstrate without interference from public groups. America fought and defeated the Nazis in World War 2. Can you imagine this "both sides are wrong" argument being pushed forth back then? Well, actually you don't have to imagine it. In the late 1920s and early 1930s when Nazis were still a relatively fringe extremist group, Antifa was violently opposing them and beating them up in the streets. And many members of the German public, mainly the German middle class, denounced such violence, which only served to empower the Nazis, who could in turn say "See? Violence is wrong! Everyone says so!" We all know how it all ended up.
- nextlevelwizard 9y ago
  Yet no Nazi symbolism or chants were present in the Alt-Right's ranks before Antifa started to organize Black Blocks and turned protests violent. Remember this whole cycle started by grown adults wanting special treatment, such as safe spaces and forced usage special pronouns, and people who were against such non-sense.
  - johnny22 9y ago
    your whataboutism is nonsense. please take it somewhere else.
  - zichy 9y ago
    This is the worst comment I've read in a long while. Political discussions on HN are the worst.
    - zimpenfish 9y ago
      Only when people show up to defend Nazis.
  - zimpenfish 9y ago
    > Yet no Nazi symbolism or chants were present in the Alt-Right's ranks You think the identification of someone as a Nazi requires them to be wearing symbolism or chanting? No. The alt-right has been espousing Nazi ideals and philosophy for a long time - well before Spencer coined the cute term for them. > Remember this whole cycle started by grown adults wanting special treatment Yes, I remember the GamerGate idiots too.
    - nextlevelwizard 9y ago
      >Yes, I remember the GamerGate idiots too. I hardly followed the topic. Refresh my memory, it was about some developer who had slept with some journalist at some point and the journalist gave the game a good review and people thought the game was bad? All I remember from it was that everyone who played video games was again labeled as misogynist and there were demands from SJW changes bunch of games to have female characters with less revealing clothing.
      - zimpenfish 9y ago
        > Refresh my memory, it was [incorrect account of how GamerGate started]? No. > everyone No. > there were demands from SJW changes bunch of games to have female characters with less revealing clothing No.
zimpenfish 9y ago
> I've been called a Nazi scum for advocating civil behavior, refraining from violence and doxxing, and siding with free speech for everyone. You know that's going to require more than anecdotal evidence though, right?
- nextlevelwizard 9y ago
  Frequent Reddit. Try taking just a step to right from your current views. You'll see how fast you'll get banned from all Left subreddits and you'll get called names and labeled as everything bad under the Sun. This being said I'm also banned from the infamous The_Donald, since I do not belong to the right either.
  - zichy 9y ago
    So you're neither right nor left? Wow, there has to be some new political identity which only the most intelligent people choose. (I should probably stop arguing with centrists over the internet.)
    - nextlevelwizard 9y ago
      I never said anything about anyone's intelligent, you brought it up. I do not belong to current Left. I do not agree with their gender politics. I do not agree with their immigration politics. On same vein I do not belong to current Right (or Alt-Right if you must). I do not support their views on homosexuality or their marriage status. I do support gun control. I do think we should help refugees, but again not the same way Left is pushing. I do not believe in White supremacy, on same vein I do not believe in White guilt over what people did over a 100 years ago. I've always thought myself as being on the Left or at least very left leaning, but currently with all the SJW and Antifa stuff I agree with them less and less. I just want to be me.
  - vanderreeah 9y ago
    Your being banned from a subreddit is not the same as your right to free speech being infringed upon. "Free speech" does not equal "permission to post in one or more specific subreddits".
zichy 9y ago
>I've been called a Nazi scum for advocating civil behavior Assuming that this is your account, do you call this misogynic shit "civil behavior"? https://twitter.com/nextlevelwizard/status/714920887225552896 https://twitter.com/nextlevelwizard/status/71492088722555289... https://twitter.com/nextlevelwizard/status/714906555733446656 https://twitter.com/nextlevelwizard/status/71490655573344665... Spending time with games, anime and 4chan memes doesn't qualify for a political discourse.
- nextlevelwizard 9y ago
  You can assume that it's my twitter, but I only have this username here and on reddit. Then again I don't see why someone can't enjoy games, anime, or 4chan memes or how consuming them disqualifies you from having political opinions or dismissing them.
  - zichy 9y ago
    Okay, so it's not your Twitter account. Reading some of your Reddit comments is almost worse. Living in Germany, it's hard to imagine that "communists" are still the bogeyman in the US.
    - nextlevelwizard 9y ago
      I'm not from the US either. If you do not see how Communism is just as bad as National Socialism, then your educational system has failed you.
      - zichy 9y ago
        I'm speechless.
        gort 9y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_... (Incidentally, since apparently I need to say this, I'll note that Reddit and Twitter users "gort" are not me.)

enraged_camel 9y ago

The thing is, many people conflate Freedom of Speech with free speech. The former is the constitutionally protected freedom from government persecution (e.g. imprisonment) based on what you say. The latter is the misguided belief that you should be allowed to say whatever you want in public without consequence. I strongly believe it is morally wrong to side with people who support genocide, and whose predecessors have committed genocide. It is morally wrong to suggest they should be allowed (by other members of the public) to continue touting and spreading their hateful, vile ideologies. Siding with such people doesn't make you a Nazi, but it's still pretty bad. They do have the right, i.e. Freedom of Speech, to demonstrate without government interference. They absolutely do not have the right, morally or otherwise, to demonstrate without interference from public groups. America fought and defeated the Nazis in World War 2. Can you imagine this "both sides are wrong" argument being pushed forth back then? Well, actually you don't have to imagine it. In the late 1920s and early 1930s when Nazis were still a relatively fringe extremist group, Antifa was violently opposing them and beating them up in the streets. And many members of the German public, mainly the German middle class, denounced such violence, which only served to empower the Nazis, who could in turn say "See? Violence is wrong! Everyone says so!" We all know how it all ended up.

nextlevelwizard 9y ago
Yet no Nazi symbolism or chants were present in the Alt-Right's ranks before Antifa started to organize Black Blocks and turned protests violent. Remember this whole cycle started by grown adults wanting special treatment, such as safe spaces and forced usage special pronouns, and people who were against such non-sense.
- johnny22 9y ago
  your whataboutism is nonsense. please take it somewhere else.
- zichy 9y ago
  This is the worst comment I've read in a long while. Political discussions on HN are the worst.
  - zimpenfish 9y ago
    Only when people show up to defend Nazis.
- zimpenfish 9y ago
  > Yet no Nazi symbolism or chants were present in the Alt-Right's ranks You think the identification of someone as a Nazi requires them to be wearing symbolism or chanting? No. The alt-right has been espousing Nazi ideals and philosophy for a long time - well before Spencer coined the cute term for them. > Remember this whole cycle started by grown adults wanting special treatment Yes, I remember the GamerGate idiots too.
  - nextlevelwizard 9y ago
    >Yes, I remember the GamerGate idiots too. I hardly followed the topic. Refresh my memory, it was about some developer who had slept with some journalist at some point and the journalist gave the game a good review and people thought the game was bad? All I remember from it was that everyone who played video games was again labeled as misogynist and there were demands from SJW changes bunch of games to have female characters with less revealing clothing.
    - zimpenfish 9y ago
      > Refresh my memory, it was [incorrect account of how GamerGate started]? No. > everyone No. > there were demands from SJW changes bunch of games to have female characters with less revealing clothing No.

zimpenfish 9y ago

> I've been called a Nazi scum for advocating civil behavior, refraining from violence and doxxing, and siding with free speech for everyone. You know that's going to require more than anecdotal evidence though, right?

nextlevelwizard 9y ago
Frequent Reddit. Try taking just a step to right from your current views. You'll see how fast you'll get banned from all Left subreddits and you'll get called names and labeled as everything bad under the Sun. This being said I'm also banned from the infamous The_Donald, since I do not belong to the right either.
- zichy 9y ago
  So you're neither right nor left? Wow, there has to be some new political identity which only the most intelligent people choose. (I should probably stop arguing with centrists over the internet.)
  - nextlevelwizard 9y ago
    I never said anything about anyone's intelligent, you brought it up. I do not belong to current Left. I do not agree with their gender politics. I do not agree with their immigration politics. On same vein I do not belong to current Right (or Alt-Right if you must). I do not support their views on homosexuality or their marriage status. I do support gun control. I do think we should help refugees, but again not the same way Left is pushing. I do not believe in White supremacy, on same vein I do not believe in White guilt over what people did over a 100 years ago. I've always thought myself as being on the Left or at least very left leaning, but currently with all the SJW and Antifa stuff I agree with them less and less. I just want to be me.
- vanderreeah 9y ago
  Your being banned from a subreddit is not the same as your right to free speech being infringed upon. "Free speech" does not equal "permission to post in one or more specific subreddits".

zichy 9y ago

>I've been called a Nazi scum for advocating civil behavior Assuming that this is your account, do you call this misogynic shit "civil behavior"? https://twitter.com/nextlevelwizard/status/714920887225552896 https://twitter.com/nextlevelwizard/status/71492088722555289... https://twitter.com/nextlevelwizard/status/714906555733446656 https://twitter.com/nextlevelwizard/status/71490655573344665... Spending time with games, anime and 4chan memes doesn't qualify for a political discourse.

nextlevelwizard 9y ago
You can assume that it's my twitter, but I only have this username here and on reddit. Then again I don't see why someone can't enjoy games, anime, or 4chan memes or how consuming them disqualifies you from having political opinions or dismissing them.
- zichy 9y ago
  Okay, so it's not your Twitter account. Reading some of your Reddit comments is almost worse. Living in Germany, it's hard to imagine that "communists" are still the bogeyman in the US.
  - nextlevelwizard 9y ago
    I'm not from the US either. If you do not see how Communism is just as bad as National Socialism, then your educational system has failed you.
    - zichy 9y ago
      I'm speechless.
      - gort 9y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_... (Incidentally, since apparently I need to say this, I'll note that Reddit and Twitter users "gort" are not me.)