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How are they effecting free speech? It seems you are trying to take it away from people, by trying to call them nazis and getting rid of them. This group is pro

How are they effecting free speech? It seems you are trying to take it away from people, by trying to call them nazis and getting rid of them. This group is probably way more free speech, their main enemy Antifa is specifically against free speech

enraged_camel 9y ago
>>by trying to call them nazis and getting rid of them. Uh, they are quite literally Nazis. They do the Nazi salute, carry/wear swastikas and yell "blood and soil". You may disagree with antifa but don't make the mistake of equating them with these losers.
- nextlevelwizard 9y ago
  The thing is, at the moment if you do not agree with Antifa/SJW crowd you are automatically labeled a Nazi even if you do not wear their symbols or chant any of their slogans. It is strange that on some groups people always say "not all", but with alt-right it is always "they are all Nazis".
  - zimpenfish 9y ago
    > at the moment if you do not agree with Antifa/SJW crowd you are automatically labeled a Nazi This just isn't true no matter how many times people say it.
    - nextlevelwizard 9y ago
      I only speak from experience. I've been called a Nazi scum for advocating civil behavior, refraining from violence and doxxing, and siding with free speech for everyone. People have even straight up assumed I was a (poorly hidden) KKK member because my user name has the word "wizard" in it.
      - enraged_camel 9y ago
        The thing is, many people conflate Freedom of Speech with free speech. The former is the constitutionally protected freedom from government persecution (e.g. imprisonment) based on what you say. The latter is the misguided belief that you should be allowed to say whatever you want in public without consequence. I strongly believe it is morally wrong to side with people who support genocide, and whose predecessors have committed genocide. It is morally wrong to suggest they should be allowed (by other members of the public) to continue touting and spreading their hateful, vile ideologies. Siding with such people doesn't make you a Nazi, but it's still pretty bad. They do have the right, i.e. Freedom of Speech, to demonstrate without government interference. They absolutely do not have the right, morally or otherwise, to demonstrate without interference from public groups. America fought and defeated the Nazis in World War 2. Can you imagine this "both sides are wrong" argument being pushed forth back then? Well, actually you don't have to imagine it. In the late 1920s and early 1930s when Nazis were still a relatively fringe extremist group, Antifa was violently opposing them and beating them up in the streets. And many members of the German public, mainly the German middle class, denounced such violence, which only served to empower the Nazis, who could in turn say "See? Violence is wrong! Everyone says so!" We all know how it all ended up.
        nextlevelwizard 9y ago
        Yet no Nazi symbolism or chants were present in the Alt-Right's ranks before Antifa started to organize Black Blocks and turned protests violent. Remember this whole cycle started by grown adults wanting special treatment, such as safe spaces and forced usage special pronouns, and people who were against such non-sense.
        johnny22 9y ago
        your whataboutism is nonsense. please take it somewhere else.
        zichy 9y ago
        This is the worst comment I've read in a long while. Political discussions on HN are the worst.
nthcolumn 9y ago
How much free speech you think you'll have when they have their fascist state?
Can_Not 9y ago
> Antifa is specifically against free speech Antifa is specifically against fascism. Some sects may also be against free hate speech.
- skrowl 9y ago
  A central tenent of facism is forcible suppression of opposing views through censorship or violence. What would you say Antifa is doing when they attack people with bike locks, throw bottles of urine on them, etc? 'Antifa is specifically against free speech' is provably correct. They are intolerant of any views they disagree with to the point of inciting violence to suppress those views. Look beyond their name standing for "anti-facism" and instead look at their actions.
  - nthcolumn 9y ago
    The views they disagree with are fascist views so yes duh. they are literally anti-fascists. Have you any examples of them opposing any views which aren't fascist, violently or otherwise? We should oppose that.
    - skrowl 9y ago
      I'm not sure if you're trolling or not at this point. Nothing antifa has protested is actually fascist. Just calling everyone you oppose a facist or nazi to justify your actions doesn't make it true. Look up a definition of facism other than google / wikipedias and you'll see what I mean. Attacking free speech rallies is terrorism, not "fighting fascism". In fact, the US Dept of Homeland Security already categorized them as a domestic terrorist group in 2016. Even the extreme left LA times admits they're bad in the wake of their terror attacks at Berkley - http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-far-left-violence-20170829-story.html http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-far-left-violence-2... The fact that they wear masks to everything should clue you in on their evil, lawless intent. Law abiding people who oppose facism don't need masks.
    - gort 9y ago
      This article makes a good case: http://www.weeklystandard.com/a-beating-in-berkeley/article/2009498 http://www.weeklystandard.com/a-beating-in-berkeley/article/...

enraged_camel 9y ago

>>by trying to call them nazis and getting rid of them. Uh, they are quite literally Nazis. They do the Nazi salute, carry/wear swastikas and yell "blood and soil". You may disagree with antifa but don't make the mistake of equating them with these losers.

nextlevelwizard 9y ago
The thing is, at the moment if you do not agree with Antifa/SJW crowd you are automatically labeled a Nazi even if you do not wear their symbols or chant any of their slogans. It is strange that on some groups people always say "not all", but with alt-right it is always "they are all Nazis".
- zimpenfish 9y ago
  > at the moment if you do not agree with Antifa/SJW crowd you are automatically labeled a Nazi This just isn't true no matter how many times people say it.
  - nextlevelwizard 9y ago
    I only speak from experience. I've been called a Nazi scum for advocating civil behavior, refraining from violence and doxxing, and siding with free speech for everyone. People have even straight up assumed I was a (poorly hidden) KKK member because my user name has the word "wizard" in it.
    - enraged_camel 9y ago
      The thing is, many people conflate Freedom of Speech with free speech. The former is the constitutionally protected freedom from government persecution (e.g. imprisonment) based on what you say. The latter is the misguided belief that you should be allowed to say whatever you want in public without consequence. I strongly believe it is morally wrong to side with people who support genocide, and whose predecessors have committed genocide. It is morally wrong to suggest they should be allowed (by other members of the public) to continue touting and spreading their hateful, vile ideologies. Siding with such people doesn't make you a Nazi, but it's still pretty bad. They do have the right, i.e. Freedom of Speech, to demonstrate without government interference. They absolutely do not have the right, morally or otherwise, to demonstrate without interference from public groups. America fought and defeated the Nazis in World War 2. Can you imagine this "both sides are wrong" argument being pushed forth back then? Well, actually you don't have to imagine it. In the late 1920s and early 1930s when Nazis were still a relatively fringe extremist group, Antifa was violently opposing them and beating them up in the streets. And many members of the German public, mainly the German middle class, denounced such violence, which only served to empower the Nazis, who could in turn say "See? Violence is wrong! Everyone says so!" We all know how it all ended up.
      - nextlevelwizard 9y ago
        Yet no Nazi symbolism or chants were present in the Alt-Right's ranks before Antifa started to organize Black Blocks and turned protests violent. Remember this whole cycle started by grown adults wanting special treatment, such as safe spaces and forced usage special pronouns, and people who were against such non-sense.
        johnny22 9y ago
        your whataboutism is nonsense. please take it somewhere else.
        zichy 9y ago
        This is the worst comment I've read in a long while. Political discussions on HN are the worst.

nthcolumn 9y ago

How much free speech you think you'll have when they have their fascist state?

Can_Not 9y ago

> Antifa is specifically against free speech Antifa is specifically against fascism. Some sects may also be against free hate speech.

skrowl 9y ago
A central tenent of facism is forcible suppression of opposing views through censorship or violence. What would you say Antifa is doing when they attack people with bike locks, throw bottles of urine on them, etc? 'Antifa is specifically against free speech' is provably correct. They are intolerant of any views they disagree with to the point of inciting violence to suppress those views. Look beyond their name standing for "anti-facism" and instead look at their actions.
- nthcolumn 9y ago
  The views they disagree with are fascist views so yes duh. they are literally anti-fascists. Have you any examples of them opposing any views which aren't fascist, violently or otherwise? We should oppose that.
  - skrowl 9y ago
    I'm not sure if you're trolling or not at this point. Nothing antifa has protested is actually fascist. Just calling everyone you oppose a facist or nazi to justify your actions doesn't make it true. Look up a definition of facism other than google / wikipedias and you'll see what I mean. Attacking free speech rallies is terrorism, not "fighting fascism". In fact, the US Dept of Homeland Security already categorized them as a domestic terrorist group in 2016. Even the extreme left LA times admits they're bad in the wake of their terror attacks at Berkley - http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-far-left-violence-20170829-story.html http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-far-left-violence-2... The fact that they wear masks to everything should clue you in on their evil, lawless intent. Law abiding people who oppose facism don't need masks.
  - gort 9y ago
    This article makes a good case: http://www.weeklystandard.com/a-beating-in-berkeley/article/2009498 http://www.weeklystandard.com/a-beating-in-berkeley/article/...