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>Learning the time tables for example - you just have to do lots of exercises to get used to multiplying. No way around that. Learning how to perform mental ar

>Learning the time tables for example - you just have to do lots of exercises to get used to multiplying. No way around that. Learning how to perform mental arithmetic with the aid of pencil and paper was a way to escape from the grind of farm work. One could get a respectable job as a clerk. However with the advent of electronic cash registers and smartphones a way around this later form of grind has also been found. So no need to make it compulsory. Which isn't to say that people don't choose to practice specific things they personally consider useful. Even gamers do that.

ajuc 9y ago
Can't understand modern world without understanding statistic, can't do that without algebra and basic calculus, can't do that without being at least adequate at mental multiplication (for calculating parameters in equations and understanding how they change without interrupting your train of thought every 3 seconds). So yeah, I think you still need to grind these multiplication tables, even if you have perfect version of Wolphram Alpha on your smartphone. It won't tell you what question to ask.
- roceasta 9y ago
  Have you noticed that most adults don't know what nine times seven is? If you ask them on the street they'll mostly either get it wrong or tell you quite rudely to go away. This is despite (and because of) a decade of grind at school. Or have you noticed that people are unable to hold a conversation in a foreign language despite years of 'study' in a classroom? Whereas an enthusiastic individual can pick up basic conversation for themselves in a matter of months. This is because coercion in education is: (1) painful, (2) prophetic, (3) it doesn't work! What happens in real life is that if somebody needs to know something because they are keen to do something else then they will learn it efficiently, 'just in time' and precisely to the extent needed. Assuming their creativity is relatively intact... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY
  - ajuc 9y ago
    Not really (but then I never asked random people to multiply for me :) ). But I can kinda understand why, you almost never have to multiply 9*7 by hand. If you're doing algebra or any symbolic calculations you rarely use digits other than 0-4. In real world Benford's law + usual rounding greatly reduces the need to multiply by 7 or 9 (or 8 for that matter).

ajuc 9y ago

Can't understand modern world without understanding statistic, can't do that without algebra and basic calculus, can't do that without being at least adequate at mental multiplication (for calculating parameters in equations and understanding how they change without interrupting your train of thought every 3 seconds). So yeah, I think you still need to grind these multiplication tables, even if you have perfect version of Wolphram Alpha on your smartphone. It won't tell you what question to ask.

roceasta 9y ago
Have you noticed that most adults don't know what nine times seven is? If you ask them on the street they'll mostly either get it wrong or tell you quite rudely to go away. This is despite (and because of) a decade of grind at school. Or have you noticed that people are unable to hold a conversation in a foreign language despite years of 'study' in a classroom? Whereas an enthusiastic individual can pick up basic conversation for themselves in a matter of months. This is because coercion in education is: (1) painful, (2) prophetic, (3) it doesn't work! What happens in real life is that if somebody needs to know something because they are keen to do something else then they will learn it efficiently, 'just in time' and precisely to the extent needed. Assuming their creativity is relatively intact... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY
- ajuc 9y ago
  Not really (but then I never asked random people to multiply for me :) ). But I can kinda understand why, you almost never have to multiply 9*7 by hand. If you're doing algebra or any symbolic calculations you rarely use digits other than 0-4. In real world Benford's law + usual rounding greatly reduces the need to multiply by 7 or 9 (or 8 for that matter).