6 ms·

IMO, any landlord who demands rent on properties that are not suitable for human habitation should be locked up and have the key thrown away. Then all their as

IMO, any landlord who demands rent on properties that are not suitable for human habitation should be locked up and have the key thrown away. Then all their assets should be seized under RICO. If they won't fix it up so that humans can safely live there, then they can't be allowed to charge rents on it. But maybe that's just me.

lovich 9y ago
Does Texas allow for landlords to collect rent when the building is unliveable? In mass I believe the landlords have some time to try and repair property in the event of a catastrophe like a hurricane but they don't get to collect rent off of something they are no longer providing
- bdcravens 9y ago
  "Under the Texas property code, if a rental premises is “totally unusable” due to an external disaster then either the landlord or tenant can terminate the lease through written notice. But if the property is “partially unusable” because of a disaster, a tenant may only get a reduction in rent determined by a county or district court." However, there's not a provision for living rent-free; only lease termination or rent-reduction.
  - lovich 9y ago
    So would a state ordered evacuation count a unliveable? I don't see how one arm of the government would be able to say that everyone in an area needs to leave while another arm can state that the premises are liveable and pretend that they are using any sort of logic
    - bdcravens 9y ago
      Not mutually exclusive. Evacuations are typically due to imminent risk, not necessarily that the housing is unlivable once that risk passes. An evacuation can even be ordered when the house sustains no damage, as a precautionary measure. Evacuation != condemned property.
      - lovich 9y ago
        That is true, but if the government orders you to no longer be in that area then you are legally unable to live in it, correct? On whose side does the damage fall when this occurs in Texas is my question. The tenant who has to pay rent for a good they can no longer use, or the landlord whose investment can no longer make money
bdcravens 9y ago
I appreciate the sentiment, but not every landlord is a tycoon. Houston doesn't have the real estate crisis other cities have, so you may charge about 2x the mortgage. (Not to mention the mortgage you eat when a property sits vacant, which is pretty common .. again, there's not the real estate crisis here you see other places where rentals get snatched up quickly) So a month or two without income means the property may be in the red, and as there are many landlords without substantial capital to float a non-paying tenant, that tenant may find themselves in a foreclosed property, where everyone loses.
- breakyerself 9y ago
  My dad was a middle class landlord. He bought the duplex we lived in and rented out the other side and eventually moved into a better place and rented both sides. People move out. People become delinquent and have to be evicted. If you can't handle unexpected periods without rental income then you've blundered into the business of owning rental property. He had all kinds of problems and periods without rent coming in. He always found a way to keep in the black with the bank.
- trapperkeeper74 9y ago
  Here's a very small violin. Landlords can cry to FEMA.
  - seanp2k2 9y ago
    Shoulda bought that flood insurance for the mortgage. I don't have much sympathy for rent-seekers when the renters probably can't even work right now. This hurricane has really been bringing out the worst in humans; $20/gal gas, $100/case water, scam robocalls to flood victims, this, etc. This is what happens when you put money before humanity.
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      > Shoulda bought that flood insurance for the mortgage. Flood insurance is hard because flood plain data is notoriously inaccurate. We would need to require everyone to buy flood insurance. "Water Damage From Hurricane Harvey Extended Far Beyond Flood Zones" "About 40 percent of the buildings estimated by the Federal Emergency Management Agency to have been flooded in Harris County, Tex., are in areas considered to be “of minimal flood hazard.” https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/09/01/us/houston-damaged-buildings-in-fema-flood-zones.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/09/01/us/houston-da...
JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> IMO, any landlord who demands rent on properties that are not suitable for human habitation should be locked up and have the key thrown away. Then all their assets should be seized under RICO. Take a mental snapshot of that emotion. It's what drives all vindictive (versus harm reducing) policy making. Understanding it will bring you clarity in discussions around drug use penalties and other debates.
- thrownaway954 9y ago
  Excellent advice.
VeronicaJJ123 9y ago
That is ridiculous. A lot of us are middle class people who have rented our house and we have to pay mortgage. It makes perfect sense to demand rent for the month. This "lock the people up I dont agree with" is called fascist attitude.
- nindalf 9y ago
  The other dude is crazy because no reasonable person would call for jail time in such a case. However, I also do not support a landlord asking for rent in a place that isn't fit for human habitation. A good contract, in my opinion, would stipulate that the landlord loses the rent on a pro rated basis till they fix the place up. I sympathize with their mortgage obligations, but I'm sure that's an added incentive to get the place in shape quickly.
  - VeronicaJJ123 9y ago
    > A good contract, in my opinion, would stipulate that the landlord loses the rent on a pro rated basis till they fix the place up. I sympathize with their mortgage obligations, but I'm sure that's an added incentive to get the place in shape quickly. Perfectly reasonable in my opinion. In fact my rental agreement has a similar clause which gives tenant 30 days to vacate and find another place OR I can provide 30 days of another accommodation for "Free" and then fix the place in those 30 days. Both landlords and tenants are perfectly normal human beings with compassion and all that. They are not evil people. I was only triggered by "arrest these people" comments which in my opinion do not belong on a civilized forum like HN.
  - bonesss 9y ago
    > A good contract, in my opinion, would stipulate that the landlord loses the rent on a pro rated basis till they fix the place up. So something like: > ...if a rental premises is “totally unusable” due to an external disaster then either the landlord or tenant can terminate the lease through written notice. But if the property is “partially unusable” because of a disaster, a tenant may only get a reduction in rent determined by a county or district court. ...? Because that's the current situation under the Texas property code according to the article. Where it will get tricky is the legal distinctions of what usable means in this context. An apartment that is fine but has no working plumbing or power? A house that's fine except for the floors and carpets? Are the tenants storing things there? Can the property owner exercise their ownership rights by having parties or renting the place to the red cross or by kicking off a renovation? These issues impact both sides of the agreement... Paying money secures rights for tenants/leasers. For every sad story about someone who can't pay their rent right now I bet we could put together bad legislation to make a hundred sad stories about people who lost their rentals and property because of market conditions favored them being kicked out during a flooding episode.
notyourday 9y ago
What does the lease say?

lovich 9y ago

Does Texas allow for landlords to collect rent when the building is unliveable? In mass I believe the landlords have some time to try and repair property in the event of a catastrophe like a hurricane but they don't get to collect rent off of something they are no longer providing

bdcravens 9y ago
"Under the Texas property code, if a rental premises is “totally unusable” due to an external disaster then either the landlord or tenant can terminate the lease through written notice. But if the property is “partially unusable” because of a disaster, a tenant may only get a reduction in rent determined by a county or district court." However, there's not a provision for living rent-free; only lease termination or rent-reduction.
- lovich 9y ago
  So would a state ordered evacuation count a unliveable? I don't see how one arm of the government would be able to say that everyone in an area needs to leave while another arm can state that the premises are liveable and pretend that they are using any sort of logic
  - bdcravens 9y ago
    Not mutually exclusive. Evacuations are typically due to imminent risk, not necessarily that the housing is unlivable once that risk passes. An evacuation can even be ordered when the house sustains no damage, as a precautionary measure. Evacuation != condemned property.
    - lovich 9y ago
      That is true, but if the government orders you to no longer be in that area then you are legally unable to live in it, correct? On whose side does the damage fall when this occurs in Texas is my question. The tenant who has to pay rent for a good they can no longer use, or the landlord whose investment can no longer make money

bdcravens 9y ago

I appreciate the sentiment, but not every landlord is a tycoon. Houston doesn't have the real estate crisis other cities have, so you may charge about 2x the mortgage. (Not to mention the mortgage you eat when a property sits vacant, which is pretty common .. again, there's not the real estate crisis here you see other places where rentals get snatched up quickly) So a month or two without income means the property may be in the red, and as there are many landlords without substantial capital to float a non-paying tenant, that tenant may find themselves in a foreclosed property, where everyone loses.

breakyerself 9y ago
My dad was a middle class landlord. He bought the duplex we lived in and rented out the other side and eventually moved into a better place and rented both sides. People move out. People become delinquent and have to be evicted. If you can't handle unexpected periods without rental income then you've blundered into the business of owning rental property. He had all kinds of problems and periods without rent coming in. He always found a way to keep in the black with the bank.
trapperkeeper74 9y ago
Here's a very small violin. Landlords can cry to FEMA.
- seanp2k2 9y ago
  Shoulda bought that flood insurance for the mortgage. I don't have much sympathy for rent-seekers when the renters probably can't even work right now. This hurricane has really been bringing out the worst in humans; $20/gal gas, $100/case water, scam robocalls to flood victims, this, etc. This is what happens when you put money before humanity.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    > Shoulda bought that flood insurance for the mortgage. Flood insurance is hard because flood plain data is notoriously inaccurate. We would need to require everyone to buy flood insurance. "Water Damage From Hurricane Harvey Extended Far Beyond Flood Zones" "About 40 percent of the buildings estimated by the Federal Emergency Management Agency to have been flooded in Harris County, Tex., are in areas considered to be “of minimal flood hazard.” https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/09/01/us/houston-damaged-buildings-in-fema-flood-zones.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/09/01/us/houston-da...

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

> IMO, any landlord who demands rent on properties that are not suitable for human habitation should be locked up and have the key thrown away. Then all their assets should be seized under RICO. Take a mental snapshot of that emotion. It's what drives all vindictive (versus harm reducing) policy making. Understanding it will bring you clarity in discussions around drug use penalties and other debates.

thrownaway954 9y ago
Excellent advice.

VeronicaJJ123 9y ago

That is ridiculous. A lot of us are middle class people who have rented our house and we have to pay mortgage. It makes perfect sense to demand rent for the month. This "lock the people up I dont agree with" is called fascist attitude.

nindalf 9y ago
The other dude is crazy because no reasonable person would call for jail time in such a case. However, I also do not support a landlord asking for rent in a place that isn't fit for human habitation. A good contract, in my opinion, would stipulate that the landlord loses the rent on a pro rated basis till they fix the place up. I sympathize with their mortgage obligations, but I'm sure that's an added incentive to get the place in shape quickly.
- VeronicaJJ123 9y ago
  > A good contract, in my opinion, would stipulate that the landlord loses the rent on a pro rated basis till they fix the place up. I sympathize with their mortgage obligations, but I'm sure that's an added incentive to get the place in shape quickly. Perfectly reasonable in my opinion. In fact my rental agreement has a similar clause which gives tenant 30 days to vacate and find another place OR I can provide 30 days of another accommodation for "Free" and then fix the place in those 30 days. Both landlords and tenants are perfectly normal human beings with compassion and all that. They are not evil people. I was only triggered by "arrest these people" comments which in my opinion do not belong on a civilized forum like HN.
- bonesss 9y ago
  > A good contract, in my opinion, would stipulate that the landlord loses the rent on a pro rated basis till they fix the place up. So something like: > ...if a rental premises is “totally unusable” due to an external disaster then either the landlord or tenant can terminate the lease through written notice. But if the property is “partially unusable” because of a disaster, a tenant may only get a reduction in rent determined by a county or district court. ...? Because that's the current situation under the Texas property code according to the article. Where it will get tricky is the legal distinctions of what usable means in this context. An apartment that is fine but has no working plumbing or power? A house that's fine except for the floors and carpets? Are the tenants storing things there? Can the property owner exercise their ownership rights by having parties or renting the place to the red cross or by kicking off a renovation? These issues impact both sides of the agreement... Paying money secures rights for tenants/leasers. For every sad story about someone who can't pay their rent right now I bet we could put together bad legislation to make a hundred sad stories about people who lost their rentals and property because of market conditions favored them being kicked out during a flooding episode.

notyourday 9y ago

What does the lease say?