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I'm not sure how left this is: "If there's actual conversation on there, it's probably just a bunch of people with Wonder Woman avatars assuring each other that

I'm not sure how left this is: "If there's actual conversation on there, it's probably just a bunch of people with Wonder Woman avatars assuring each other that America is Already Great™." https://raddit.me/f/ShitLiberalsSay/6024/verrit-a-hillary-clinton-endorsed-social-network-for https://raddit.me/f/ShitLiberalsSay/6024/verrit-a-hillary-cl...

wutbrodo 9y ago
What do you mean? This is _precisely_ what I'd expect. Hating on (neo)liberals like Hillary Clinton is damn near ubiquitous on left forums these days, as is dismissing what they perceive as shallow identity politics and conflating liberals with the right. Like, you literally couldn't have picked a better quote to sum up the left's views in 2017, and then you captioned it with "I'm not sure how left this is".
- blowski 9y ago
  Which just goes to show that reducing politics to a simple "left-right" axis is part of the problem, and not particularly helpful.
  - chongli 9y ago
    Eh, not really, Hillary Clinton is way to the right of most non-US western politicians. It's just that the US skews so heavily to the right to begin with that she seems normal.
  - wutbrodo 9y ago
    Agreed, I have a comment down below expressing frustration at exactly that. I was just speaking on the terms that the parent comment was: liberals aren't very popular these days on the left _or_ the right, and as such aren't very well-represented in hard-left forums. That being said, I wouldn't really classify Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama as all that leftist. In the two-axis model, they're sort of straight down-the-middle centrist liberals (like me!)
    - tray5 9y ago
      The entire democratic party really isn't leftist, outside of the heavily skewed American ecosystem, they're centre right.
      - wutbrodo 9y ago
        Treating left as if it has some inherent, context-free meaning is ridiculous. If you're going to define a spectrum, the context matters, and the context we're currently discussing is American politics. You may as well say that American politics only contains extreme leftists, when compared to the rest of American history.
        tray5 9y ago
        Sure it is, leftism occupies a spectrum of economic and social ideals, which the US left (led by the DNC) falls uniformly outside that spectrum. I mean Monarchists are left of fascists, but that doesn't make monarchists leftist just because you compare them to something further right. Just because your system is dominated by capitalists doesn't make the rest of the spectrum irrelevant, and redefining the conversation to fit into your narrow band is what has led to the frustrations with the American situation. The American left is not left when considering the entire spectrum of left-right political ideas, and you don't get to suddenly chose to define something as leftist within the context of your narrow window of acceptable thought, it must encompass all ideas.
        Domenic_S 9y ago
        That's just not a meaningful distinction. Technically correct, probably -- useful? Nah.
        FridgeSeal 9y ago
        Could you clarify? How is it not a useful distinction - they pretty clearly outlined the differences.
        9y ago
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    It's why confusing the Democrats, a party whose dominant faction is a center-right one with the left is a problem, but its not really a problem with reducing politics to a single axis (that is a problem, in general, though its actually not that inaccurate when it comes to US politics.)
- tray5 9y ago
  If I'm being honest it's because the American left really isn't leftist at all, and I think that Americans are becoming aware of it
WaxProlix 9y ago
I think that most anarchists and leftists are opposed to the Democrats as well as the Republicans, seeing them as similarly center-right on most meaningful issues. It does sometimes result in funny moments like this where the critique of American liberal Democrats could easily come from either side.
SwellJoe 9y ago
Hillary is center-right by international standards, and the radical left treats her as such. You won't find many leftists praising Clinton, even if some of them voted for her out of desperation.
GhostVII 9y ago
Lots of the top posts seem to be very supportive of the antifa, so it seems pretty far left to me.

wutbrodo 9y ago

What do you mean? This is _precisely_ what I'd expect. Hating on (neo)liberals like Hillary Clinton is damn near ubiquitous on left forums these days, as is dismissing what they perceive as shallow identity politics and conflating liberals with the right. Like, you literally couldn't have picked a better quote to sum up the left's views in 2017, and then you captioned it with "I'm not sure how left this is".

blowski 9y ago
Which just goes to show that reducing politics to a simple "left-right" axis is part of the problem, and not particularly helpful.
- chongli 9y ago
  Eh, not really, Hillary Clinton is way to the right of most non-US western politicians. It's just that the US skews so heavily to the right to begin with that she seems normal.
- wutbrodo 9y ago
  Agreed, I have a comment down below expressing frustration at exactly that. I was just speaking on the terms that the parent comment was: liberals aren't very popular these days on the left _or_ the right, and as such aren't very well-represented in hard-left forums. That being said, I wouldn't really classify Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama as all that leftist. In the two-axis model, they're sort of straight down-the-middle centrist liberals (like me!)
  - tray5 9y ago
    The entire democratic party really isn't leftist, outside of the heavily skewed American ecosystem, they're centre right.
    - wutbrodo 9y ago
      Treating left as if it has some inherent, context-free meaning is ridiculous. If you're going to define a spectrum, the context matters, and the context we're currently discussing is American politics. You may as well say that American politics only contains extreme leftists, when compared to the rest of American history.
      - tray5 9y ago
        Sure it is, leftism occupies a spectrum of economic and social ideals, which the US left (led by the DNC) falls uniformly outside that spectrum. I mean Monarchists are left of fascists, but that doesn't make monarchists leftist just because you compare them to something further right. Just because your system is dominated by capitalists doesn't make the rest of the spectrum irrelevant, and redefining the conversation to fit into your narrow band is what has led to the frustrations with the American situation. The American left is not left when considering the entire spectrum of left-right political ideas, and you don't get to suddenly chose to define something as leftist within the context of your narrow window of acceptable thought, it must encompass all ideas.
        Domenic_S 9y ago
        That's just not a meaningful distinction. Technically correct, probably -- useful? Nah.
        FridgeSeal 9y ago
        Could you clarify? How is it not a useful distinction - they pretty clearly outlined the differences.
        9y ago
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  It's why confusing the Democrats, a party whose dominant faction is a center-right one with the left is a problem, but its not really a problem with reducing politics to a single axis (that is a problem, in general, though its actually not that inaccurate when it comes to US politics.)
tray5 9y ago
If I'm being honest it's because the American left really isn't leftist at all, and I think that Americans are becoming aware of it

WaxProlix 9y ago

I think that most anarchists and leftists are opposed to the Democrats as well as the Republicans, seeing them as similarly center-right on most meaningful issues. It does sometimes result in funny moments like this where the critique of American liberal Democrats could easily come from either side.

SwellJoe 9y ago

Hillary is center-right by international standards, and the radical left treats her as such. You won't find many leftists praising Clinton, even if some of them voted for her out of desperation.

GhostVII 9y ago

Lots of the top posts seem to be very supportive of the antifa, so it seems pretty far left to me.