5 ms·

One can easily imagine reading an article like this published on a Russian site, with 'Kaspersky' replaced with 'Symantec' and 'FSB' with 'NSA'.

mc32 9y ago
TBH, regardless of the NYT and their recent "red-scare", I'd be concerned with using them on sensitive systems -because either knowingly or unwittingly they could have FSB moles working for them.
- wyldfire 9y ago
  I have no idea one way or the other (regarding either the NYT or Kaspersky). But it does strike me that your theory is credible. However it also seems credible that Microsoft, Intel and other critical hardware and software vendors based in the US may have moles and/or agreements in place with CIA/NSA.
  - mc32 9y ago
    That's possible as well but if you are US based at least the damage is contained --the NSA isn't going to give your data to a foreign competitor (or local for you have recourse in the legal system), whereas I'm not so sure the FSB would not "share" information with their preferred firms and if you become aware of it, you would have very little recourse.
    - UnoriginalGuy 9y ago
      Unless you aren't in the US or Russia, then you have Russia potentially spying for Russian companies/government, and the US/NSA potentially spying for US companies/government. The NSA has been caught with their hand in the cookie jar when it comes to corporate espionage[0][1]. [0] https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/06/29/wikileaks_docs_show_nsa_vs_france/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/06/29/wikileaks_docs_show... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_espionage#Concerns_of_national_governments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_espionage#Concerns_...
      - mc32 9y ago
        I think it's common knowledge industrial espionage is practiced from time to time by all major powers. The question is a calculus. Who'd put you in a smaller/bigger ditch, relatively speaking.
    - zaqokm321 9y ago
      > That's possible as well but if you are US based at least the damage is contained There have been long standing allegations that the US uses ECHELON to spy on foreign business. Second to that we all don't live in the US, and many of us are from the "good" side also, but that doesn't mean we are immuned to US eaves dropping.
- bayesian_horse 9y ago
  You really don't need FSB moles if the property and even personal survival of the CEO is in the hands of an authocratic regime. No Russian citizen in Russia, especially not anyone with any kind of wealth, can deny the government's requests. Whether the influence on Kasperky is from the top or only starts further down the chain, is more of a stylistic aspect of handling intelligence assets...
  - unlmtd1 9y ago
    Russians are more free than Americans.
  - agarden 9y ago
    This, too, is not unique to Russia. Joseph Nacchio was CEO of Qwest[1] when he refused to hand things over to the NSA. Lucrative government contracts were then dropped, Qwest's earnings took a hit, and Nacchio was subsequently prosecuted for insider trading. As I understand it, the accusation was that he knew they were not going to meet their earnings forecast and his contention is that he did not because the government contracts being dropped was a surprise to him. "Since being freed in September 2013, Nacchio, 65, has repeatedly denied he engaged in insider trading, arguing that he thought Qwest had opportunities to get federal contracts that would have boosted its revenue, but those opportunities were withdrawn after the company's alleged refusal to cooperate with a National Security Agency surveillance program. Nacchio has suggested repeatedly that the government's prosecution of him was payback for not helping the NSA."[2] Even if it turns out that Nacchio really is guilty of insider trading and the government did nothing untoward, one can see how easy it would be for the US government to destroy the life of a CEO they find uncooperative. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Nacchio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Nacchio 2. https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2015/04/29/joe-nacchio-speaks-out-on-prison-broken-justice.html https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2015/04/29/joe-nacch...
    - bayesian_horse 9y ago
      That seems to be a rather particular case, of which the details are not publicly known. It could easily be that the NSA had a particularly good reason to withdraw the contracts, and obviously the company didn't have a right to these contracts in the first place, or the NSA wouldn't have been able to stop them. On the other hand, the NSA is not controlled by the government, at least not to the level of individual prosecutions, investigations or contracts.
- ucaetano 9y ago
  This is an opinion piece by a Democratic Senator, not a news piece or editorial from the NYT. Why people here continuously fail to understand the concept of an opinion piece? The NYT even hosted Putin in the op-ed column.
sandworm101 9y ago
You forgot microsoft apple and google. In many countries they are looked upon as potential vectors if not threats themselves.
- junkculture 9y ago
  Microsoft and Google are definitely vectors both for themselves and as puppets for the US govt. Apple isn't there yet, but who knows when they'll be compromised.
  - sandworm101 9y ago
    Apple was listed in some of the snowden docs right beside everyone else.
int_19h 9y ago
One can, and such an article would also be 100% correct. Even if Symantec doesn't partner with NSA today, there's certainly a potential for them to be doing that tomorrow. The pragmatic difference is that it's very hard for another country to completely avoid relying on software products created in the sphere of influence of Western spy agencies, whereas it's relatively easy for US to ditch Kaspersky.

mc32 9y ago

TBH, regardless of the NYT and their recent "red-scare", I'd be concerned with using them on sensitive systems -because either knowingly or unwittingly they could have FSB moles working for them.

wyldfire 9y ago
I have no idea one way or the other (regarding either the NYT or Kaspersky). But it does strike me that your theory is credible. However it also seems credible that Microsoft, Intel and other critical hardware and software vendors based in the US may have moles and/or agreements in place with CIA/NSA.
- mc32 9y ago
  That's possible as well but if you are US based at least the damage is contained --the NSA isn't going to give your data to a foreign competitor (or local for you have recourse in the legal system), whereas I'm not so sure the FSB would not "share" information with their preferred firms and if you become aware of it, you would have very little recourse.
  - UnoriginalGuy 9y ago
    Unless you aren't in the US or Russia, then you have Russia potentially spying for Russian companies/government, and the US/NSA potentially spying for US companies/government. The NSA has been caught with their hand in the cookie jar when it comes to corporate espionage[0][1]. [0] https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/06/29/wikileaks_docs_show_nsa_vs_france/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/06/29/wikileaks_docs_show... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_espionage#Concerns_of_national_governments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_espionage#Concerns_...
    - mc32 9y ago
      I think it's common knowledge industrial espionage is practiced from time to time by all major powers. The question is a calculus. Who'd put you in a smaller/bigger ditch, relatively speaking.
  - zaqokm321 9y ago
    > That's possible as well but if you are US based at least the damage is contained There have been long standing allegations that the US uses ECHELON to spy on foreign business. Second to that we all don't live in the US, and many of us are from the "good" side also, but that doesn't mean we are immuned to US eaves dropping.
bayesian_horse 9y ago
You really don't need FSB moles if the property and even personal survival of the CEO is in the hands of an authocratic regime. No Russian citizen in Russia, especially not anyone with any kind of wealth, can deny the government's requests. Whether the influence on Kasperky is from the top or only starts further down the chain, is more of a stylistic aspect of handling intelligence assets...
- unlmtd1 9y ago
  Russians are more free than Americans.
- agarden 9y ago
  This, too, is not unique to Russia. Joseph Nacchio was CEO of Qwest[1] when he refused to hand things over to the NSA. Lucrative government contracts were then dropped, Qwest's earnings took a hit, and Nacchio was subsequently prosecuted for insider trading. As I understand it, the accusation was that he knew they were not going to meet their earnings forecast and his contention is that he did not because the government contracts being dropped was a surprise to him. "Since being freed in September 2013, Nacchio, 65, has repeatedly denied he engaged in insider trading, arguing that he thought Qwest had opportunities to get federal contracts that would have boosted its revenue, but those opportunities were withdrawn after the company's alleged refusal to cooperate with a National Security Agency surveillance program. Nacchio has suggested repeatedly that the government's prosecution of him was payback for not helping the NSA."[2] Even if it turns out that Nacchio really is guilty of insider trading and the government did nothing untoward, one can see how easy it would be for the US government to destroy the life of a CEO they find uncooperative. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Nacchio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Nacchio 2. https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2015/04/29/joe-nacchio-speaks-out-on-prison-broken-justice.html https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2015/04/29/joe-nacch...
  - bayesian_horse 9y ago
    That seems to be a rather particular case, of which the details are not publicly known. It could easily be that the NSA had a particularly good reason to withdraw the contracts, and obviously the company didn't have a right to these contracts in the first place, or the NSA wouldn't have been able to stop them. On the other hand, the NSA is not controlled by the government, at least not to the level of individual prosecutions, investigations or contracts.
ucaetano 9y ago
This is an opinion piece by a Democratic Senator, not a news piece or editorial from the NYT. Why people here continuously fail to understand the concept of an opinion piece? The NYT even hosted Putin in the op-ed column.

sandworm101 9y ago

You forgot microsoft apple and google. In many countries they are looked upon as potential vectors if not threats themselves.

junkculture 9y ago
Microsoft and Google are definitely vectors both for themselves and as puppets for the US govt. Apple isn't there yet, but who knows when they'll be compromised.
- sandworm101 9y ago
  Apple was listed in some of the snowden docs right beside everyone else.

int_19h 9y ago

One can, and such an article would also be 100% correct. Even if Symantec doesn't partner with NSA today, there's certainly a potential for them to be doing that tomorrow. The pragmatic difference is that it's very hard for another country to completely avoid relying on software products created in the sphere of influence of Western spy agencies, whereas it's relatively easy for US to ditch Kaspersky.