2 ms·

This is counteracted by the fact that employees now have the option of walking away from their jobs, and thus employers would have to raise wages to draw them i

This is counteracted by the fact that employees now have the option of walking away from their jobs, and thus employers would have to raise wages to draw them in. Wages might rise in the type of jobs that nobody actually wants to do (eg. janitor), though wages may very well decrease in the jobs that everybody wants. UBI and government job programs aren't mutually exclusive. I do think the government should create more jobs for the public good, especially in scientific research and development. But either way, I think a UBI is necessary so that people have the option of working for themselves rather than being forced to answer to someone else. UBI is like the libertarian approach, while government jobs are the more authoritarian approach. I think both should coexist. I guess there's no guarantee that UBI would be a living wage. Regardless, I think we need a UBI. Money is one's claim on society's resources, and since we're all shareholders in this economy, we should receive a citizen's dividend, even if that amount isn't that much (eg. Alaska's Permanent Fund)

pjmorris 9y ago
> This is counteracted by the fact that employees now have the option of walking away from their jobs I don't see how either a UBI or a job guarantee limits employees from walking away from their jobs. The presence of a job, or an income, hasn't stopped many people from starting their own thing. > But either way, I think a UBI is necessary so that people have the option of working for themselves rather than being forced to answer to someone else. The option to work for yourself isn't taken away by a jobs guarantee. I can see how the presence of a UBI would permit people to do things no one would pay for otherwise. As idyllic as I really do think that sounds, I suspect that examples of people doing things no one would pay for would be used over time by UBI opponents to drive down the value of the UBI to below a living wage.
- RealityNow 9y ago
  UBI doesn't limit employees from walking away from their jobs, it enables them to. > The option to work for yourself isn't taken away by a jobs guarantee. Obviously. Job guarantee programs however still don't allow you to truly walk away from your job unless you're able to financially support yourself, whereas a UBI does.
  - pjmorris 9y ago
    Yep, I misread your point, and mis-responded. A UBI that's actually enough to replace a job has the benefits you describe, at the cost of UBI times the population. A UBI that's not enough to replace a job doesn't have the benefits you describe, has the negatives I describe, and costs almost as much.

pjmorris 9y ago

> This is counteracted by the fact that employees now have the option of walking away from their jobs I don't see how either a UBI or a job guarantee limits employees from walking away from their jobs. The presence of a job, or an income, hasn't stopped many people from starting their own thing. > But either way, I think a UBI is necessary so that people have the option of working for themselves rather than being forced to answer to someone else. The option to work for yourself isn't taken away by a jobs guarantee. I can see how the presence of a UBI would permit people to do things no one would pay for otherwise. As idyllic as I really do think that sounds, I suspect that examples of people doing things no one would pay for would be used over time by UBI opponents to drive down the value of the UBI to below a living wage.

RealityNow 9y ago
UBI doesn't limit employees from walking away from their jobs, it enables them to. > The option to work for yourself isn't taken away by a jobs guarantee. Obviously. Job guarantee programs however still don't allow you to truly walk away from your job unless you're able to financially support yourself, whereas a UBI does.
- pjmorris 9y ago
  Yep, I misread your point, and mis-responded. A UBI that's actually enough to replace a job has the benefits you describe, at the cost of UBI times the population. A UBI that's not enough to replace a job doesn't have the benefits you describe, has the negatives I describe, and costs almost as much.