5 ms·

Don't write anything on your resume that would indicate "number of years experience" -- list your jobs, explain key achievements, don't distill anything down to

Don't write anything on your resume that would indicate "number of years experience" -- list your jobs, explain key achievements, don't distill anything down to a number. Your resume should NOT explain who you are, or go into real specifics -- it's an advertisement for you, as simple as that. If they want details, they'll have to schedule an interview. Once you have the interview, you can talk about your experiences, why you're a good fit, what you do in your spare time, etc -- they will not tally up years of experience or record your answers directly into an Excel spreadsheet. Also, don't say you're "pivoting" your career. Just don't.

moron4hire 9y ago
You're focused on the wrong thing. The resume comes way too late in the job acquisition process to really matter. The vast majority of jobs are filled through networking, not applying cold with a great resume. You need to work on meeting people in your field, at the companies where you want to work. It's not what you know, it's who you know. Go out to meetups. Be a friendly, helpful person. Make friends, lots of them. One of them will make the connection for you at some point.
- hasenj 9y ago
  I always hear this, but I've never been hired through networking, nor have I ever seen someone hired through networking. I suspect that to be more the case in very large companies. Luckily I have never worked in one.
  - jacalata 9y ago
    My boyfriend got his current job when my friend mentioned that her friend had the same degree as him and had mentioned the company was hiring, would he like to be put in touch? The company is about 15 people altogether.
  - Bahamut 9y ago
    Large companies are probably even less likely to hire due to networking - it helps more with smaller companies. I have helped gotten friends hired at companies I’ve worked at, and vice versa.
  - kelnos 9y ago
    I've never not been hired through networking, and I've never worked for a large company. YMMV.
  - smartbit 9y ago
    I pivoted my career and got hired through networking (active attending meetups)
  - bdcravens 9y ago
    Depends on what you call networking. Being involved (speaking), mentoring, reaching out to people in your social circle who have contacts in professional circles you're interested in, etc. Networking isn't showing up to a something posted on Meetup.com, grabbing a slice of pizza and a drink, and making small talk.
    - moron4hire 9y ago
      No, eating meetup pizza is not the whole of networking, but it's a very easy path that can certainly lead to the rest.
      - bdcravens 9y ago
        Of course, it's still a matter of initiative. You have to make those connections, not expect being on auto-pilot to result in a pot of gold.
  - zwischenzug 9y ago
    I got hired in an industry (finance) I had no experience in after giving a talk at a meetup, then an 'interview' in a pub.
  - dnautics 9y ago
    I'm working at a place where I don't know anyone who was hired except through networking.
- groby_b 9y ago
  I still doubt the "networking" part. I've got my first job in the states because a recruiter called me. Same for the second job. The third one was through being acquired. The fourth one, you could call networking if you call showing up for a recruiting event networking. 5th one? You guessed it, recruiter called. Sixth one? Yep. Exactly. Before that, I worked in Germany. 1st job, applied cold. Second one, applied cold. 3rd one, applied cold. 4th one was working with a friend, so there's that. 5th one, applied cold for contract work, converted into a job. So half networked. So, if we're generous, 2 out of 11 were networking. As far as I'm concerned, work on the things you care about, build your skills, and when you switch jobs, make sure it propels you forward in some way. If you're a social person, by all means, enjoy meetups/meeting people because it's something that works for you. But don't force yourself to yet another meetup just because everybody says you should.
  - sidlls 9y ago
    I still get recruiters randomly messaging me. However they're all looking for someone to move laterally, not up. This wasn't the case when I was more junior. Much like salary I find myself wondering if there isn't a limit to finding new opportunities without networking.
    - dabockster 9y ago
      > I still get recruiters randomly messaging me. Define "recruiter".
      - sidlls 9y ago
        People who recruit. I get messages from recruiters who are direct employees of the companies they recruit for, self-employed recruiters and recruiters for contracting shops. Probably a variety of others, too.
    - groby_b 9y ago
      There might be. I don't know. I've been approached by recruiters, told them point blank "not what I'm looking for, here's what I want", and they just pointed me to those opportunities instead. So I think part of the answer is clearly saying what you want. I don't know if that holds for positions like Director /VP at large tech companies - these are always somewhat political - but it seems to hold up to pretty much right before that. YMMV, of course. For all I know, I accidentally have the right magic keywords in my LinkedIn or something. (I don't know. I only update it every few years, so I certainly am not paying enough attention to tell :)
quuquuquu 9y ago
>"Also, don't say you're 'pivoting' yout career. Just don't." I tend to find such polemics unhelpful. Usually when someone tells me "just don't", I end up really wanting to know the mechanism behind what is causing such a stern warning. For example, if I asked someone, "should I jump out of an airplane with no parachute",... and someone says... "just don't, because unless you have lots of luck and can defy lots of laws of physics, you will most likely be killed"... then they have revealed a very clear and concrete reason, which strengthens their assertion of "just don't". I see no such evidence for or against using the word "pivot", and I can imagine scenarios where the word even resonates with certain types of people.
- rpedela 9y ago
  I agree with you in general but I agree with parent about the use of the word pivot and its synonyms in this case. By using that word in an interview, you are signaling inexperience which the OP is trying to avoid.
  - ptero 9y ago
    This not only signals inexperience, it also invites questions on why did you decide to pivot (did you fail? any other negativity there?). This is not necessarily bad, you can theoretically use those questions to your advantage. However, interview gives one a very limited time to impress. Better use it to discuss your strength and the future, not invite archeological queries.
- jonahx 9y ago
  The reason, at least to me, was implicit: Because the word itself is a signal of bullshit and is likely to raise flags for many people doing the hiring. There isn't anything more concrete than that. YMMV. In this particular case, it rings true to me.
  - EnderMB 9y ago
    My thoughts exactly. Software development in general is a high-bullshit career, so I think anyone involved in either building software or hiring people to build software is going to have an extremely well-tuned bullshit detector.
TurboHaskal 9y ago
> they will not tally up years of experience or record your answers directly > into an Excel spreadsheet. About half of my interviews started with an HR phone call where they spew their laundry list of technologies and ask me to disclose the years of experience and how do I rate my skills from 0 to 10 for each element in the list.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- moretai 9y ago
  How do you typically rate yourself on these scales? You can't call yourself anything lower than a 9 lest they move on.
  - TurboHaskal 9y ago
    I'm not the right person to ask. I've never managed to get a job that involved HR screening phone calls. I usually rate myself from 7 to 8. Probably 9 if I have 5+ years of experience or I would be confident consulting. Once I rated my skills as 10 for a technology I know quite a lot about. I was then told that I was showing off and that I need to work on being more humble.
    - milofeynman 9y ago
      Ouch. I think I'm starting to see why so many people get jobs through connections rather than cold applying.
      - meric 9y ago
        They're testing for Dunning-kruger - either you're below average and you rate yourself a 7 or you're a 10 and you rate yourself an 8.
Kluny 9y ago
> they will not tally up years of experience or record your answers directly into an Excel spreadsheet. They absolutely will ask for the exact years and months if you haven't listed them, and they'll think you're hiding something if you prevaricate.
palerdot 9y ago
Ideally this should be the flow in having a job conversation. This will clearly lead to better fit for both the employer and the employee. Unfortunately, most of the real world jobs ask for some kind of number as experience, even though they know that the number does not directly translate into anything meaningful.
thisisit 9y ago
Good advice but as many are pointing out, many a times the job description will have some kid of "number of years experience" requirement. Even if it means asking for X number of years when the technology has existed for X-N years.
dabockster 9y ago
> Don't write anything on your resume that would indicate "number of years experience" So hold off on start/end dates at jobs then? Since those could be used to figure out experience?

moron4hire 9y ago

You're focused on the wrong thing. The resume comes way too late in the job acquisition process to really matter. The vast majority of jobs are filled through networking, not applying cold with a great resume. You need to work on meeting people in your field, at the companies where you want to work. It's not what you know, it's who you know. Go out to meetups. Be a friendly, helpful person. Make friends, lots of them. One of them will make the connection for you at some point.

hasenj 9y ago
I always hear this, but I've never been hired through networking, nor have I ever seen someone hired through networking. I suspect that to be more the case in very large companies. Luckily I have never worked in one.
- jacalata 9y ago
  My boyfriend got his current job when my friend mentioned that her friend had the same degree as him and had mentioned the company was hiring, would he like to be put in touch? The company is about 15 people altogether.
- Bahamut 9y ago
  Large companies are probably even less likely to hire due to networking - it helps more with smaller companies. I have helped gotten friends hired at companies I’ve worked at, and vice versa.
- kelnos 9y ago
  I've never not been hired through networking, and I've never worked for a large company. YMMV.
- smartbit 9y ago
  I pivoted my career and got hired through networking (active attending meetups)
- bdcravens 9y ago
  Depends on what you call networking. Being involved (speaking), mentoring, reaching out to people in your social circle who have contacts in professional circles you're interested in, etc. Networking isn't showing up to a something posted on Meetup.com, grabbing a slice of pizza and a drink, and making small talk.
  - moron4hire 9y ago
    No, eating meetup pizza is not the whole of networking, but it's a very easy path that can certainly lead to the rest.
    - bdcravens 9y ago
      Of course, it's still a matter of initiative. You have to make those connections, not expect being on auto-pilot to result in a pot of gold.
- zwischenzug 9y ago
  I got hired in an industry (finance) I had no experience in after giving a talk at a meetup, then an 'interview' in a pub.
- dnautics 9y ago
  I'm working at a place where I don't know anyone who was hired except through networking.
groby_b 9y ago
I still doubt the "networking" part. I've got my first job in the states because a recruiter called me. Same for the second job. The third one was through being acquired. The fourth one, you could call networking if you call showing up for a recruiting event networking. 5th one? You guessed it, recruiter called. Sixth one? Yep. Exactly. Before that, I worked in Germany. 1st job, applied cold. Second one, applied cold. 3rd one, applied cold. 4th one was working with a friend, so there's that. 5th one, applied cold for contract work, converted into a job. So half networked. So, if we're generous, 2 out of 11 were networking. As far as I'm concerned, work on the things you care about, build your skills, and when you switch jobs, make sure it propels you forward in some way. If you're a social person, by all means, enjoy meetups/meeting people because it's something that works for you. But don't force yourself to yet another meetup just because everybody says you should.
- sidlls 9y ago
  I still get recruiters randomly messaging me. However they're all looking for someone to move laterally, not up. This wasn't the case when I was more junior. Much like salary I find myself wondering if there isn't a limit to finding new opportunities without networking.
  - dabockster 9y ago
    > I still get recruiters randomly messaging me. Define "recruiter".
    - sidlls 9y ago
      People who recruit. I get messages from recruiters who are direct employees of the companies they recruit for, self-employed recruiters and recruiters for contracting shops. Probably a variety of others, too.
  - groby_b 9y ago
    There might be. I don't know. I've been approached by recruiters, told them point blank "not what I'm looking for, here's what I want", and they just pointed me to those opportunities instead. So I think part of the answer is clearly saying what you want. I don't know if that holds for positions like Director /VP at large tech companies - these are always somewhat political - but it seems to hold up to pretty much right before that. YMMV, of course. For all I know, I accidentally have the right magic keywords in my LinkedIn or something. (I don't know. I only update it every few years, so I certainly am not paying enough attention to tell :)

quuquuquu 9y ago

>"Also, don't say you're 'pivoting' yout career. Just don't." I tend to find such polemics unhelpful. Usually when someone tells me "just don't", I end up really wanting to know the mechanism behind what is causing such a stern warning. For example, if I asked someone, "should I jump out of an airplane with no parachute",... and someone says... "just don't, because unless you have lots of luck and can defy lots of laws of physics, you will most likely be killed"... then they have revealed a very clear and concrete reason, which strengthens their assertion of "just don't". I see no such evidence for or against using the word "pivot", and I can imagine scenarios where the word even resonates with certain types of people.

rpedela 9y ago
I agree with you in general but I agree with parent about the use of the word pivot and its synonyms in this case. By using that word in an interview, you are signaling inexperience which the OP is trying to avoid.
- ptero 9y ago
  This not only signals inexperience, it also invites questions on why did you decide to pivot (did you fail? any other negativity there?). This is not necessarily bad, you can theoretically use those questions to your advantage. However, interview gives one a very limited time to impress. Better use it to discuss your strength and the future, not invite archeological queries.
jonahx 9y ago
The reason, at least to me, was implicit: Because the word itself is a signal of bullshit and is likely to raise flags for many people doing the hiring. There isn't anything more concrete than that. YMMV. In this particular case, it rings true to me.
- EnderMB 9y ago
  My thoughts exactly. Software development in general is a high-bullshit career, so I think anyone involved in either building software or hiring people to build software is going to have an extremely well-tuned bullshit detector.

TurboHaskal 9y ago

> they will not tally up years of experience or record your answers directly > into an Excel spreadsheet. About half of my interviews started with an HR phone call where they spew their laundry list of technologies and ask me to disclose the years of experience and how do I rate my skills from 0 to 10 for each element in the list.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
moretai 9y ago
How do you typically rate yourself on these scales? You can't call yourself anything lower than a 9 lest they move on.
- TurboHaskal 9y ago
  I'm not the right person to ask. I've never managed to get a job that involved HR screening phone calls. I usually rate myself from 7 to 8. Probably 9 if I have 5+ years of experience or I would be confident consulting. Once I rated my skills as 10 for a technology I know quite a lot about. I was then told that I was showing off and that I need to work on being more humble.
  - milofeynman 9y ago
    Ouch. I think I'm starting to see why so many people get jobs through connections rather than cold applying.
    - meric 9y ago
      They're testing for Dunning-kruger - either you're below average and you rate yourself a 7 or you're a 10 and you rate yourself an 8.

Kluny 9y ago

> they will not tally up years of experience or record your answers directly into an Excel spreadsheet. They absolutely will ask for the exact years and months if you haven't listed them, and they'll think you're hiding something if you prevaricate.

palerdot 9y ago

Ideally this should be the flow in having a job conversation. This will clearly lead to better fit for both the employer and the employee. Unfortunately, most of the real world jobs ask for some kind of number as experience, even though they know that the number does not directly translate into anything meaningful.

thisisit 9y ago

Good advice but as many are pointing out, many a times the job description will have some kid of "number of years experience" requirement. Even if it means asking for X number of years when the technology has existed for X-N years.

dabockster 9y ago

> Don't write anything on your resume that would indicate "number of years experience" So hold off on start/end dates at jobs then? Since those could be used to figure out experience?