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Yeah, that'll convince them to our side! Let's insult of their taste! Never mind that taste is subjective, and you cannot deny that modern wind turbines don't

by nnfy 9y ago

Yeah, that'll convince them to our side! Let's insult of their taste! Never mind that taste is subjective, and you cannot deny that modern wind turbines don't exactly blend with the natural horizon, be it sky, mountain, or forest...

freehunter 9y ago
Well to be fair, skyscrapers don't blend with the horizon. Cell towers don't blend with the horizon. Cooling towers and smokestacks don't blend with the horizon. The nice thing with coal and nuclear power is that rich people can push it's production to poorer areas and forget that there are major externalities to allow them to flip a light switch. Rejecting wind power because it [insert reason here] is just saying "make the poor people deal with it". It is quite literally one of the most selfish decisions anyone can make, to force the world to stay on coal power because wind turbines "don't blend with the horizon".
- nnfy 9y ago
  No. Don't make this a class warfare thing. The nice thing about nuclear/coal power plants is that you dont have to pepper the horizon with them. There is substantially less visual impact, and with nuclear, far less spatial footprint. And plenty of people, rich and poor, oppose skyscraper construction because of view loss. What is with this inane contemporary idea that we should not be able to use wealth to improve our quality of life? This is the ultimate form of empty virtue signaling. Why haven't you built a turbine on your property yet? I'd venture to guess that you're a well off developer, making you top 1% of the global population... But it's ok, so long as you have your own 1% to sneer at, right? It's their fault that we dont have turbines! Classism can be used for the same kind of scapegoating that racism and sexism are.
  - freehunter 9y ago
    Because here's the argument: I need power. Right now I get that power from coal plants. That's bad, right? I think that's bad. Let's not do that. Oh, you mean to get wind power you need to put the windmill somewhere windy? But my house is windy! Nah, let's keep the coal, at least I can't see it from my house. The inane contemporary argument is that you can use wealth to improve your quality of life. Like not burning coal to make electricity. Arguing that you'd rather stay on coal power than see a windmill isn't trying to improve your quality of life, it's actively destroying someone else's quality of life. But the lungs of a poor person are worth less than the view of a rich person, so that's what happens. At least coal doesn't "pepper the landscape?" Jesus christ, man. No one is asking you to put a turbine in your backyard, you're just throwing a fit about the hypothetical potential to maybe possibly one day cast a glance at one, and rejecting the idea on that basis. Did you know meat comes from dead animals too? Yeah, really pretty view from inside a bubble. Real nice horizon.
    - nnfy 9y ago
      I am not arguing that we should stay on coal. I'm suggesting that you dont need to be an evil 1% banker to understand why both rich and poor people can be against windmills. >No one is asking you to put a turbine in your backyard Sure, but it is going in someone's backyard, and it isn't as footprintless as people make it seem. Poor and rich share the horizon alike; I would argue that you are the one in a bubble if it is so difficult for you to wrap your head around why people from all classes may not like wind power, especially when other options exist.I'll >But the lungs of a poor person are worth less than the view of a rich person Why haven't you donated all of your income to starving children? Is your comfort worth so much more than theirs? Dont put words in my mouth. You're refusing to analyse this from the perspective of cost/benefit. All I'm saying is that there is a non zero cost to choosing windmills over other alternatives, and it has nothing to do with classisim. There are documented complaints from farmers about noise and light problems from windmills. Again, let me spell this out for you, I dont care if it is true or not, there are people who believe it, and it is subjective. Further, who are YOU to make the decision for the helpless poor that you guard over so arrogantly that a handful of cancer deaths in a region are worth a potential eyesore? You know that people still willingly smoke cigarettes, right? Are you smarter than those people? Are you prepared to look them in the face and say that YOU know better than they?
  - yongjik 9y ago
    > The nice thing about nuclear/coal power plants is that you dont have to pepper the horizon with them. Ahem, https://www.google.com/search?q=open+pit+coal+mine&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=open+pit+coal+mine&tbm=isch

by nnfy 9y ago

freehunter 9y ago

Well to be fair, skyscrapers don't blend with the horizon. Cell towers don't blend with the horizon. Cooling towers and smokestacks don't blend with the horizon. The nice thing with coal and nuclear power is that rich people can push it's production to poorer areas and forget that there are major externalities to allow them to flip a light switch. Rejecting wind power because it [insert reason here] is just saying "make the poor people deal with it". It is quite literally one of the most selfish decisions anyone can make, to force the world to stay on coal power because wind turbines "don't blend with the horizon".

nnfy 9y ago
No. Don't make this a class warfare thing. The nice thing about nuclear/coal power plants is that you dont have to pepper the horizon with them. There is substantially less visual impact, and with nuclear, far less spatial footprint. And plenty of people, rich and poor, oppose skyscraper construction because of view loss. What is with this inane contemporary idea that we should not be able to use wealth to improve our quality of life? This is the ultimate form of empty virtue signaling. Why haven't you built a turbine on your property yet? I'd venture to guess that you're a well off developer, making you top 1% of the global population... But it's ok, so long as you have your own 1% to sneer at, right? It's their fault that we dont have turbines! Classism can be used for the same kind of scapegoating that racism and sexism are.
- freehunter 9y ago
  Because here's the argument: I need power. Right now I get that power from coal plants. That's bad, right? I think that's bad. Let's not do that. Oh, you mean to get wind power you need to put the windmill somewhere windy? But my house is windy! Nah, let's keep the coal, at least I can't see it from my house. The inane contemporary argument is that you can use wealth to improve your quality of life. Like not burning coal to make electricity. Arguing that you'd rather stay on coal power than see a windmill isn't trying to improve your quality of life, it's actively destroying someone else's quality of life. But the lungs of a poor person are worth less than the view of a rich person, so that's what happens. At least coal doesn't "pepper the landscape?" Jesus christ, man. No one is asking you to put a turbine in your backyard, you're just throwing a fit about the hypothetical potential to maybe possibly one day cast a glance at one, and rejecting the idea on that basis. Did you know meat comes from dead animals too? Yeah, really pretty view from inside a bubble. Real nice horizon.
  - nnfy 9y ago
    I am not arguing that we should stay on coal. I'm suggesting that you dont need to be an evil 1% banker to understand why both rich and poor people can be against windmills. >No one is asking you to put a turbine in your backyard Sure, but it is going in someone's backyard, and it isn't as footprintless as people make it seem. Poor and rich share the horizon alike; I would argue that you are the one in a bubble if it is so difficult for you to wrap your head around why people from all classes may not like wind power, especially when other options exist.I'll >But the lungs of a poor person are worth less than the view of a rich person Why haven't you donated all of your income to starving children? Is your comfort worth so much more than theirs? Dont put words in my mouth. You're refusing to analyse this from the perspective of cost/benefit. All I'm saying is that there is a non zero cost to choosing windmills over other alternatives, and it has nothing to do with classisim. There are documented complaints from farmers about noise and light problems from windmills. Again, let me spell this out for you, I dont care if it is true or not, there are people who believe it, and it is subjective. Further, who are YOU to make the decision for the helpless poor that you guard over so arrogantly that a handful of cancer deaths in a region are worth a potential eyesore? You know that people still willingly smoke cigarettes, right? Are you smarter than those people? Are you prepared to look them in the face and say that YOU know better than they?
- yongjik 9y ago
  > The nice thing about nuclear/coal power plants is that you dont have to pepper the horizon with them. Ahem, https://www.google.com/search?q=open+pit+coal+mine&tbm=isch https://www.google.com/search?q=open+pit+coal+mine&tbm=isch