5 ms·

I'm not saying ICO's are scams, but do you think scamming should be legal?

patrickaljord 9y ago
I believe in freedom of association, I also believe that the market is driven by reputation, therefor bad actors (in this case scammers) cannot thrive (see how bad vendors get eliminated by the market on ebay or amazon without government help, just bad reputation).
- sasas 9y ago
  Oh yes they can thrive .. for quite a while .. remember Jordan Belfort? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Belfort https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Belfort
  - patrickaljord 9y ago
    If the scam is very well executed, it will thrives for a bit longer even with laws against scams, as your link shows. However, once publicly exposed, the scammer's bad reputation will ensure no one will trust doing business with him again in his field, much more so than any anti-scamming laws that punished him with those 22 months in jail.
    - askmike 9y ago
      > the scammer's bad reputation will ensure no one will trust doing business with him again in his field That doesn't like a problem for people who can fill a ~20 million ICO in half an hour, do they need to work (=be trusted) ever again?
      - patrickaljord 9y ago
        They don't, but if it happens with a few ICOs people won't trust ICOs anymore and these kinds of scams won't repeat much. Anyway, has there been any verified ICO scams yet? Seems to me like it's not much different from startups promising BS/bad ideas to gullible VCs who end up losing millions. In this case, ICOs are selling these ideas to the little guy through crowd funding which is different but the little guy usually invest a few bucks in these ICOs so if the ICO fails to delivers it's not as big a deal unless one invests his/her life's saving in said ICO but then that's a pretty risky idea one needs to take responsibility for.
- danmaz74 9y ago
  But Amazon and Ebay already are regulated systems, with feedback, refunds etc. ICOs aren't.
- skummetmaelk 9y ago
  I think people like you should try eating food produced by unregulated companies and see how you like it. Enjoy your sawdust bread.
  - cloakandswagger 9y ago
    I buy bread from a farmer's market some weekends. It's made by one guy in his home kitchen who isn't accredited or regulated in any way. By your approximation I should be dead by now. The salient point is that it's my human right to associate with whomever I please.
    - skummetmaelk 9y ago
      Your experience at the farmer's market is surely equivalent to what most people would experience in Walmart. Many humans will do anything it takes to make a profit and not care about who they are screwing over. If you think that's okay that's fine, but then go to Somalia and see how a lawless country works in practice. Food safety in particular was mandated by populae request. I cannot wrap my head around free market believers like you who apparently think that humans are omniscient beings who have access to all information about every product and every seller they encounter so they can make informed purchasing decisions. That's just bullshit. You are a religious cult at this point.
      - CryptoPunk 9y ago
        Any market given the space to develop becomes highly vetted. Somalia's during its civil war didn't work because there was no central authority providing security and preventing raiders from pillaging markets, so markets didn't have the opportunity to become highly developed. There is no chance that supermarket shelves would be stocked with toxic/fraudulent food products in our world of secure private property rights, with or withouy food safety regulations. There is an elaborate chain of private interests involved in food production/distribution that would self-organize to prevent such an outcome. McDonalds uses higher standards for its beef than the USDA for example. Automobile manufacturers have higher safety standards than regulations require. >>That's just bullshit. You are a religious cult at this point. I recommend some introspection.

I believe in freedom of association, I also believe that the market is driven by reputation, therefor bad actors (in this case scammers) cannot thrive (see how bad vendors get eliminated by the market on ebay or amazon without government help, just bad reputation).

sasas 9y ago
Oh yes they can thrive .. for quite a while .. remember Jordan Belfort? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Belfort https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Belfort
- patrickaljord 9y ago
  If the scam is very well executed, it will thrives for a bit longer even with laws against scams, as your link shows. However, once publicly exposed, the scammer's bad reputation will ensure no one will trust doing business with him again in his field, much more so than any anti-scamming laws that punished him with those 22 months in jail.
  - askmike 9y ago
    > the scammer's bad reputation will ensure no one will trust doing business with him again in his field That doesn't like a problem for people who can fill a ~20 million ICO in half an hour, do they need to work (=be trusted) ever again?
    - patrickaljord 9y ago
      They don't, but if it happens with a few ICOs people won't trust ICOs anymore and these kinds of scams won't repeat much. Anyway, has there been any verified ICO scams yet? Seems to me like it's not much different from startups promising BS/bad ideas to gullible VCs who end up losing millions. In this case, ICOs are selling these ideas to the little guy through crowd funding which is different but the little guy usually invest a few bucks in these ICOs so if the ICO fails to delivers it's not as big a deal unless one invests his/her life's saving in said ICO but then that's a pretty risky idea one needs to take responsibility for.
danmaz74 9y ago
But Amazon and Ebay already are regulated systems, with feedback, refunds etc. ICOs aren't.
skummetmaelk 9y ago
I think people like you should try eating food produced by unregulated companies and see how you like it. Enjoy your sawdust bread.
- cloakandswagger 9y ago
  I buy bread from a farmer's market some weekends. It's made by one guy in his home kitchen who isn't accredited or regulated in any way. By your approximation I should be dead by now. The salient point is that it's my human right to associate with whomever I please.
  - skummetmaelk 9y ago
    Your experience at the farmer's market is surely equivalent to what most people would experience in Walmart. Many humans will do anything it takes to make a profit and not care about who they are screwing over. If you think that's okay that's fine, but then go to Somalia and see how a lawless country works in practice. Food safety in particular was mandated by populae request. I cannot wrap my head around free market believers like you who apparently think that humans are omniscient beings who have access to all information about every product and every seller they encounter so they can make informed purchasing decisions. That's just bullshit. You are a religious cult at this point.
    - CryptoPunk 9y ago
      Any market given the space to develop becomes highly vetted. Somalia's during its civil war didn't work because there was no central authority providing security and preventing raiders from pillaging markets, so markets didn't have the opportunity to become highly developed. There is no chance that supermarket shelves would be stocked with toxic/fraudulent food products in our world of secure private property rights, with or withouy food safety regulations. There is an elaborate chain of private interests involved in food production/distribution that would self-organize to prevent such an outcome. McDonalds uses higher standards for its beef than the USDA for example. Automobile manufacturers have higher safety standards than regulations require. >>That's just bullshit. You are a religious cult at this point. I recommend some introspection.