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I had a discussion about crypto currencies with a pretty high level EU diplomat from the trade commission. His point was simple, as soon as they will consider t

by Loic 9y ago

I had a discussion about crypto currencies with a pretty high level EU diplomat from the trade commission. His point was simple, as soon as they will consider the crypto currencies as a medium to escape taxes and general "rules" (whatever it means) they will simply ban or regulate them to put them back into the control of a central authority.

AndrewKemendo 9y ago
Seriously, I had this conversation with someone on Twitter and it was like they had no clue this was an option. A state power isn't going to let some random currency come in and compete with their sovereign currency rules.
- kobeya 9y ago
  And they will stop people from making bitcoin transactions how, exactly? It's a bit silly to come in and dismissively say "the state will regulate it anyway" when the whole point of the technology is that it technologically prevents central actors (like a state) from interfering. It's a bit like saying "nah, the MPAA and RIAA will shut down filesharing." Nope. They shut down Napster (which was centralized), but BitTorrent works just fine thank you very much and the media industry has fundamentally changed as a result.
  - mcguire 9y ago
    The same way they stop you from falsifying your taxes records now. Is this a trick question?
    - kobeya 9y ago
      No it's not a trick question. Tax fraud investigation relies on bank cooperation. Bitcoin doesn't cooperate with anybody. They can make toothless voluntary requests though. More likely society evolves in the face of bitcoin to integrate or at least mitigate it rather than fight it, just like music delivery is chiefly now by streaming subscription services rather than album sales.
      - AndrewKemendo 9y ago
        Bitcoin doesn't cooperate with anybody. Go try and turn your Bitcoin into cash and then tell me how true this statement is.
        kobeya 9y ago
        The purpose of bitcoin is to be used. Once it has seen enough adoption, you don't turn it into cash. It is cash. Also I do local bitcoin transactions just fine thank you very much.
        AndrewKemendo 9y ago
        Once it has seen enough adoption, you don't turn it into cash. Therein lies the rub and the crux of my point. A government WONT LET IT see enough adoption that you can subvert the sovereign monetary system. I think you underestimate how big of a deal it would be to move 100% of commerce off of the USD. Nations go to war for less.
  - AndrewKemendo 9y ago
    And they will stop people from making bitcoin transactions how, exactly? By making convertibility to Yuan illegal. This is trivially easy to do and enforce, making the entire Bitcoin marketplace a black market for any transactions on the mainland. So your life would get real hard real quick the moment you try to turn Bitcoin into Yuan. Oh, that's ok you'll just do ALL your transactions with bitcoin. Ok so any shop owner that makes it even slightly known that they take bitcoin will be arrested. Too easy. Forget big C communist ideology at the state level, you mess with provinces and their ability to collect money and you'll go down hard fast.

by Loic 9y ago

AndrewKemendo 9y ago

Seriously, I had this conversation with someone on Twitter and it was like they had no clue this was an option. A state power isn't going to let some random currency come in and compete with their sovereign currency rules.

kobeya 9y ago
And they will stop people from making bitcoin transactions how, exactly? It's a bit silly to come in and dismissively say "the state will regulate it anyway" when the whole point of the technology is that it technologically prevents central actors (like a state) from interfering. It's a bit like saying "nah, the MPAA and RIAA will shut down filesharing." Nope. They shut down Napster (which was centralized), but BitTorrent works just fine thank you very much and the media industry has fundamentally changed as a result.
- mcguire 9y ago
  The same way they stop you from falsifying your taxes records now. Is this a trick question?
  - kobeya 9y ago
    No it's not a trick question. Tax fraud investigation relies on bank cooperation. Bitcoin doesn't cooperate with anybody. They can make toothless voluntary requests though. More likely society evolves in the face of bitcoin to integrate or at least mitigate it rather than fight it, just like music delivery is chiefly now by streaming subscription services rather than album sales.
    - AndrewKemendo 9y ago
      Bitcoin doesn't cooperate with anybody. Go try and turn your Bitcoin into cash and then tell me how true this statement is.
      - kobeya 9y ago
        The purpose of bitcoin is to be used. Once it has seen enough adoption, you don't turn it into cash. It is cash. Also I do local bitcoin transactions just fine thank you very much.
        AndrewKemendo 9y ago
        Once it has seen enough adoption, you don't turn it into cash. Therein lies the rub and the crux of my point. A government WONT LET IT see enough adoption that you can subvert the sovereign monetary system. I think you underestimate how big of a deal it would be to move 100% of commerce off of the USD. Nations go to war for less.
- AndrewKemendo 9y ago
  And they will stop people from making bitcoin transactions how, exactly? By making convertibility to Yuan illegal. This is trivially easy to do and enforce, making the entire Bitcoin marketplace a black market for any transactions on the mainland. So your life would get real hard real quick the moment you try to turn Bitcoin into Yuan. Oh, that's ok you'll just do ALL your transactions with bitcoin. Ok so any shop owner that makes it even slightly known that they take bitcoin will be arrested. Too easy. Forget big C communist ideology at the state level, you mess with provinces and their ability to collect money and you'll go down hard fast.