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>>But there are at least a couple problems. First, many Americans are apparently convinced that some other issue is central in American politics. Maybe it's thr
by icelancer 9y ago
>>But there are at least a couple problems. First, many Americans are apparently convinced that some other issue is central in American politics. Maybe it's threats from foreigners. Or from Satan, or some proxy of his. Or perhaps, it's losing their guns. Or whatever.
This is very much by design. The state and controlling money interests are happy if people are complaining about guns, weed, LGBT rights, neo-Nazi marches, and so forth as long as the complaining does not involve economic insecurity and/or civil liberties.
- intended 9y agoThe conversation in threads never goes beyond this point. Yes, this is by design - and crickets (usually). Even if it were by design, how can it be countered or worked around.
- mirimir 9y agoI'm not sure what else there is to say. Realizing what's going on doesn't accomplish much. I mean, what's going on has been obvious for decades.
- icelancer 9y ago>>Even if it were by design, how can it be countered or worked around. My post wasn't meant to invoke a solution. I am not sure that there is one. It's quite the solved game.
- scythe 9y agoIn order to supplant an ideology, you need a new ideology. A coherent set of ideas, rather than a disparate list of complaints. When people understand (or at least think they understand) where their beliefs are taking them they're more likely to work together, which is necessary to accomplish anything. That's why communists, fascists, Christianists, Islamists, and anarcho-capitalists have organizations and magazines whereas people who are concerned about how behavioral economics affects modern capitalism do not. There's no such thing as Tverskyism.
- biren34 9y agoI've been thinking about this for a while now, and the core of the divide seems to be that people divide themselves into groups and seek advantages from one another as if they're playing a zero sum game. That may or may not be by design, but it's what I believe to be the "how" of it. The only solution that's ever worked to turn that around is sacrafice. People need to start intentionally engaging in "losing" propositions to win hearts and minds to a cause. It's only by delivering gifts that you can turn a competitive game into a cooperative game where everyone wins together. If everyone insists that they win first, then you're stuck.
- mirimir 9y agoMore to the point, those interests are very good at manipulating people. And doing the old divide and conquer ploy. Creating a crisis, and reaching a false resolution. I'm guessing that they'll become our AI overlords.
- ZeroGravitas 9y agoI'm confused by your dichotomy. Isn't the war on drugs an issue that affects economic insecurity and/or civil liberties? Don't LGBT-rights affect economic insecurity and/or civil liberties? Don't people waving Nazi banners have manifestos that directly affect economic insecurity and/or civil liberties of those they target? Is it just because they don't affect you directly that you've mentally put them in the "distracting identity politics" bucket?
- coldtea 9y agoNo, it's because most of these problems solve themselves when there's economic security.
- mirimir 9y agoThose are complaints about specific issues and outcomes. The inquiry at hand touches on the fundamental dynamics of the system that those issues and outcomes occur in. How people get manipulated into favoring the interests of the wealthy, over their own.