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Richard Wolff has also been evangelizing co-ops and worker-owned businesses for some time. http://www.rdwolff.com/faq_worker_coops_wdes http://www.rdwolff.com/

Richard Wolff has also been evangelizing co-ops and worker-owned businesses for some time. http://www.rdwolff.com/faq_worker_coops_wdes http://www.rdwolff.com/faq_worker_coops_wdes https://youtu.be/urCy3UOGgx8 https://youtu.be/urCy3UOGgx8

0xcde4c3db 9y ago
Noam Chomsky has also written and spoken quite a bit in support of anarcho-syndicalism, a closely related idea.
tray5 9y ago
Should link the whole Democracy at Work channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/democracyatwrk https://www.youtube.com/user/democracyatwrk I think it offers a refreshing viewpoint that many people on HN should consider
xiler 9y ago
In the current economy I feel co-ops are bit too radical to remedy the imbalances of power within large businesses (where it really matters). We might need something less aggressive like the widespread promotion of Employee Stock Ownership Programs (ESOPs) as a start [1]. Also co-ops might come across to business people as something along the lines of "loony-leftist Marxist idealism". Instead one can speak their language by saying things like "decentralizing planning" and "capitalism where everyone is a capitalist" and show how there is indeed common ground. An excellent example of this is The Capitalist Manifesto by Luis Kelso [2] (the creator of ESOPs). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employee_stock_ownership_plan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employee_stock_ownership_plan [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Capitalist_Manifesto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Capitalist_Manifesto
- atupis 9y ago
  Here Finland we have couple very large Co-ops eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S_Group and there is not really any difference between large corporation and large Co-ops at daily life.
elmar 9y ago
Anarcho-Syndicalism at Valve (2013) https://www.inc.com/samuel-wagreich/the-4-billion-company-with-no-bosses.html https://www.inc.com/samuel-wagreich/the-4-billion-company-wi... http://hbhblog.blogspot.pt/2013/03/valve-steam-anarcho-syndicalism.html http://hbhblog.blogspot.pt/2013/03/valve-steam-anarcho-syndi... http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2013/02/varoufakis_on_v.html http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2013/02/varoufakis_on_v.htm...
- Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
  For the record, Valve is a very different company today than it once was. It's hard to produce any reasonably backed-up insights into their modern culture.
  - elmar 9y ago
    More recent articles (2017) Welcome to Flatland: Valve’s Unique Culture https://medium.com/fluree/welcome-to-flatland-valves-unique-culture-8372e63d664e https://medium.com/fluree/welcome-to-flatland-valves-unique-... Half-life projects “ultimately just starve to death” in Valve’s company culture, says alleged insider https://www.vg247.com/2017/01/12/half-life-projects-ultimately-just-starve-to-death-in-valves-company-culture-says-alleged-insider/ https://www.vg247.com/2017/01/12/half-life-projects-ultimate...
    - Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
      But I don't think this is based on any new evidence of what their culture is like. The only source they mention is the (old) employee handbook. Edit: the parent comment added the second link in an edit.
      - elmar 9y ago
        > Half-life projects “ultimately just starve to death” in Valve’s company culture, says alleged insider Looks like this organisation structure favors some type of projects and neglects others.
grecy 9y ago
I don't understand why there are not more co-ops in this world. In Canada, Mountain Equipment Co-Op (MEC) is the all-in-one kick-ass outdoor store (like REI). It is a co-op, so you pay $5 for a lifetime membership. The place does not make a profit. All expenses are paid, all employees earn their living. At the end of the year, if they accidentally made a profit, they simply return the extra money to all the members of the co-op as a percentage of whatever that person spent for the year, thus they make no profit. This, to me, is brilliant. Customers get what they want, employees get paid. Win. Win. Why do we need stores that make profit? Why do we need banks that make ever-increasing billions in profit? I imagine a world where banks, Apple, Ford, etc. all worked like this. I want to live in that world.
- cossatot 9y ago
  REI is a coop as well, with a somewhat similar dividend structure. However I doubt that all of the profits are fully distributed at the end of the year to members. I would bet that there are 'members' who are investors/owners, not typical consumers, who actually take some of the profit home (but that is a guess, I am happy to be wrong). And of course any business should have savings as well, for multi-year capital expenditures, incidents and accidents, etc.
- clarkevans 9y ago
  There are many cooperatives that you don't know about. For example, State Farm is a "mutual insurance" cooperative, so are many mid-western Blue Cross & Blue Shield (Anthem is private). Credit unions are cooperatives. Here's the problem: people don't choose cooperatives over non-cooperatives, and, even if they did, they do not participate in the governance of these cooperatives. I think there is huge technology opportunity here: (a) increasing usage of cooperative services, and (b) giving consumers/producers "users" of the cooperative a real say in these organizations.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  The question is never about why something doesn't exist - it's about if it can be made to exist. I.e. how can we get from here to there. Economy is a dynamic system; for coops to thrive, they not only must be good coops, but also better or equivalent to regular companies, in order to survive on the market. I'd rephrase your question as: under what conditions can coops survive and thrive among regular businesses? After figuring those out, the next question is: how do we get from here to there? I.e. is there any way we can nudge the market, be it bottom-up or top-down, towards that future?

0xcde4c3db 9y ago

Noam Chomsky has also written and spoken quite a bit in support of anarcho-syndicalism, a closely related idea.

tray5 9y ago

Should link the whole Democracy at Work channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/democracyatwrk https://www.youtube.com/user/democracyatwrk I think it offers a refreshing viewpoint that many people on HN should consider

xiler 9y ago

In the current economy I feel co-ops are bit too radical to remedy the imbalances of power within large businesses (where it really matters). We might need something less aggressive like the widespread promotion of Employee Stock Ownership Programs (ESOPs) as a start [1]. Also co-ops might come across to business people as something along the lines of "loony-leftist Marxist idealism". Instead one can speak their language by saying things like "decentralizing planning" and "capitalism where everyone is a capitalist" and show how there is indeed common ground. An excellent example of this is The Capitalist Manifesto by Luis Kelso [2] (the creator of ESOPs). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employee_stock_ownership_plan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employee_stock_ownership_plan [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Capitalist_Manifesto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Capitalist_Manifesto

atupis 9y ago
Here Finland we have couple very large Co-ops eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S_Group and there is not really any difference between large corporation and large Co-ops at daily life.

elmar 9y ago

Anarcho-Syndicalism at Valve (2013) https://www.inc.com/samuel-wagreich/the-4-billion-company-with-no-bosses.html https://www.inc.com/samuel-wagreich/the-4-billion-company-wi... http://hbhblog.blogspot.pt/2013/03/valve-steam-anarcho-syndicalism.html http://hbhblog.blogspot.pt/2013/03/valve-steam-anarcho-syndi... http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2013/02/varoufakis_on_v.html http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2013/02/varoufakis_on_v.htm...

Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
For the record, Valve is a very different company today than it once was. It's hard to produce any reasonably backed-up insights into their modern culture.
- elmar 9y ago
  More recent articles (2017) Welcome to Flatland: Valve’s Unique Culture https://medium.com/fluree/welcome-to-flatland-valves-unique-culture-8372e63d664e https://medium.com/fluree/welcome-to-flatland-valves-unique-... Half-life projects “ultimately just starve to death” in Valve’s company culture, says alleged insider https://www.vg247.com/2017/01/12/half-life-projects-ultimately-just-starve-to-death-in-valves-company-culture-says-alleged-insider/ https://www.vg247.com/2017/01/12/half-life-projects-ultimate...
  - Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
    But I don't think this is based on any new evidence of what their culture is like. The only source they mention is the (old) employee handbook. Edit: the parent comment added the second link in an edit.
    - elmar 9y ago
      > Half-life projects “ultimately just starve to death” in Valve’s company culture, says alleged insider Looks like this organisation structure favors some type of projects and neglects others.

grecy 9y ago

I don't understand why there are not more co-ops in this world. In Canada, Mountain Equipment Co-Op (MEC) is the all-in-one kick-ass outdoor store (like REI). It is a co-op, so you pay $5 for a lifetime membership. The place does not make a profit. All expenses are paid, all employees earn their living. At the end of the year, if they accidentally made a profit, they simply return the extra money to all the members of the co-op as a percentage of whatever that person spent for the year, thus they make no profit. This, to me, is brilliant. Customers get what they want, employees get paid. Win. Win. Why do we need stores that make profit? Why do we need banks that make ever-increasing billions in profit? I imagine a world where banks, Apple, Ford, etc. all worked like this. I want to live in that world.

cossatot 9y ago
REI is a coop as well, with a somewhat similar dividend structure. However I doubt that all of the profits are fully distributed at the end of the year to members. I would bet that there are 'members' who are investors/owners, not typical consumers, who actually take some of the profit home (but that is a guess, I am happy to be wrong). And of course any business should have savings as well, for multi-year capital expenditures, incidents and accidents, etc.
clarkevans 9y ago
There are many cooperatives that you don't know about. For example, State Farm is a "mutual insurance" cooperative, so are many mid-western Blue Cross & Blue Shield (Anthem is private). Credit unions are cooperatives. Here's the problem: people don't choose cooperatives over non-cooperatives, and, even if they did, they do not participate in the governance of these cooperatives. I think there is huge technology opportunity here: (a) increasing usage of cooperative services, and (b) giving consumers/producers "users" of the cooperative a real say in these organizations.
TeMPOraL 9y ago
The question is never about why something doesn't exist - it's about if it can be made to exist. I.e. how can we get from here to there. Economy is a dynamic system; for coops to thrive, they not only must be good coops, but also better or equivalent to regular companies, in order to survive on the market. I'd rephrase your question as: under what conditions can coops survive and thrive among regular businesses? After figuring those out, the next question is: how do we get from here to there? I.e. is there any way we can nudge the market, be it bottom-up or top-down, towards that future?