Could either of these labs be described as a "startup"? Fundamental research seems hard to do while searching for the revenue to stay alive. You need a stable

Could either of these labs be described as a "startup"? Fundamental research seems hard to do while searching for the revenue to stay alive. You need a stable source of funding, either from a large corporation (like SAP, Xerox or AT&T/Western Electric) or a government department (like DoD/ARPA) -- not VC funding which carries the expectation of near-term growth.