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Vi Hart here... someone sent me this with confusion that it was at the top of HN yet all the comments are completely irrelevant. My understanding is that HN and

by vihart 9y ago

Vi Hart here... someone sent me this with confusion that it was at the top of HN yet all the comments are completely irrelevant. My understanding is that HN and YC are usually about startuppy stuff and business models and investors and etc, so I guess it makes sense that everyone's in that mindset. We're not a startup and not looking to reach a broad audience, get investors, or create a product. We even wrote a thing a while back regarding our not being a startup, because it is an unfamiliar concept to many people: http://elevr.com/were-not-a-startup/ http://elevr.com/were-not-a-startup/ The HARC group at Y Combinator Research has/had an ambitious vision of bringing back the basic research model that led to many fundamental innovations in the 60s, including a handful of groups in addition to ours. The kind of research that creates enormous value that cannot be captured by individual investors or companies, but that lifts the industry/people as a whole. I think if world events had been different, the timing would have worked out well for a resurgence of this kind of research. Ok nice chat, HN. You're a weird place. Vi

tw1010 9y ago
"I think if world events had been different, the timing would have worked out well for a resurgence of this kind of research." But surely you knew that before you started the venture? Wouldn't it have been better then to produce a finished marketable product which allow you to actually keep going long-term which a project like this so require. I just don't really see what the strategy for success was here.
wonderous 9y ago
Shocked to hear Vi call HN a "weird place" - especially after creating an account only five minutes ago.
- vihart 9y ago
  I dunno, probly that weird vibe you get when a community spends more time trying to sleuth out ways to delegitimize your words via irrelevant factors than considering that maybe as the author of the original content maybe you know a thing or two.
  - sctb 9y ago
    Threads on HN often take a little while to develop, especially on the weekend. Not everyone here is working on startuppy stuff—there are plenty of researchers as well as non-researchers who have a keen interest in the kind of work done at ARPA and its successors. It's true that oftentimes people rush to judgement, but the community has moderation tools at its disposal to keep things within the guidelines, which at least ask for civil and substantive discussion. If you see comments that violate the guidelines and they aren't downvoted or flagged already, you can let us know at hn@ycombinator.com so we'll be sure to see it.
    - sp332 9y ago
      Here's the example that comes to mind. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14428086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14428086 This kind of comment gets made so much on this forum I had a prepared response ready to go when it happened.
  - batguano 9y ago
    Hi Vi! Sad to hear about the change. I really loved reading the things you were doing at eleVR, and the clear and thoughtful way you explained them. HN is indeed weird, but weird in both good and bad ways. FWIW, I'm pretty sure it's where I first found out about eleVR.
  - chubot 9y ago
    Yes sorry the top comment was irrelevant in retrospect and I responded to it. It was interesting in its own right but not relevant to what the original article is about and what you're doing.
  - Grue3 9y ago
    OK, I don't really know who you are but apparently you're "famous" in some circles. However that doesn't give you right to barge into a community and within minutes pass judgement of it. Otherwise you come off like a dick. Just saying. When you posted this comment, there were a lot of thoughtful and relevant comments. What gives you the right to "delegitimize" their words? You're not better than anyone else here.
DanielRibeiro 9y ago
Thanks for your post. I loved your list of accomplishments: it looks great and you all should be proud! It sucks to be shutting down your group. If things don't turn around (who knows the power of a blog post), good luck on your next efforts. Whatever it is, I'll be looking forward to it :)
sah2ed 9y ago
> The HARC group at Y Combinator Research has/had an ambitious vision of bringing back the basic research model that led to many fundamental innovations in the 60s, including a handful of groups in addition to ours. > I think if world events had been different, the timing would have worked out well for a resurgence of this kind of research. Are you at liberty to talk more about this? I get the vibe that, with the election of Trump, YCR decided to narrow their spending to focus in the near-term on large impact projects.
anyfoo 9y ago
HN is basically two communities. I don't like the startupy, entrepreneury stuff, I come here for the mathy, electronicy, computersciency tech stuff.
aphextron 9y ago
>We're not a startup and not looking to reach a broad audience, get investors, or create a product. We even wrote a thing a while back regarding our not being a startup, because it is an unfamiliar concept to many people: http://elevr.com/were-not-a-startup/ http://elevr.com/were-not-a-startup/ Huge respect for the work you guys have done, but I think this is an unfortunate mindset. The real magic sauce for American capitalism that has driven us to such heights of technological achievement has always been about the synthesis of lofty, idealistic goals combined with the desire to make lots and lots of money. I don't think those two things should be separated as an either/or. There is certainly a need for pure basic research funded by private industry. But the real goal should be figuring out how we can do that in a way that is economically sustainable both short and long term.
- norswap 9y ago
  Bell Labs, Xerox Parc, nuff said.
  - panic 9y ago
    Could either of these labs be described as a "startup"? Fundamental research seems hard to do while searching for the revenue to stay alive. You need a stable source of funding, either from a large corporation (like SAP, Xerox or AT&T/Western Electric) or a government department (like DoD/ARPA) -- not VC funding which carries the expectation of near-term growth.
    - nl 9y ago
      That's precisely the point the post you are replying to is making.
ptrott2017 9y ago
Hi Vi - HN's audience varies and topics take time to evolve while sometimes some comments may seem irrelevant they can also lead to interesting sub threads. For the little it is worth - I have been involved in the VR industry for 25 years on and off doing either basic and applied research or commercial developments and gone through a lot of similar transitions facing you and your team. In case it helps - there are a few groups in the US that are doing similar research / learning efforts such as the entertainment tech group at Carnegie Melon (http://www.etc.cmu.edu/ http://www.etc.cmu.edu/) and the virtual human interaction lab at Stanford (https://vhil.stanford.edu/ https://vhil.stanford.edu/). Since your leaving YCR, it may be worth while for you and your team to reach out to them. Good luck.
poppingtonic 9y ago
Which funding priority supersedes this, then? Funding the prevention of nuclear war, for example? Disaster preparedness for large cities?
millettjon 9y ago
I and my children are big fans of your work. THANK YOU! I show much of your work to kids in our 18 student community home school we run in rural Chile. I wish there was more financial support for your team. I would definitely support via patreon or similar. Good luck. You are an inspiration to many :).

by vihart 9y ago

tw1010 9y ago

"I think if world events had been different, the timing would have worked out well for a resurgence of this kind of research." But surely you knew that before you started the venture? Wouldn't it have been better then to produce a finished marketable product which allow you to actually keep going long-term which a project like this so require. I just don't really see what the strategy for success was here.

wonderous 9y ago

Shocked to hear Vi call HN a "weird place" - especially after creating an account only five minutes ago.

vihart 9y ago
I dunno, probly that weird vibe you get when a community spends more time trying to sleuth out ways to delegitimize your words via irrelevant factors than considering that maybe as the author of the original content maybe you know a thing or two.
- sctb 9y ago
  Threads on HN often take a little while to develop, especially on the weekend. Not everyone here is working on startuppy stuff—there are plenty of researchers as well as non-researchers who have a keen interest in the kind of work done at ARPA and its successors. It's true that oftentimes people rush to judgement, but the community has moderation tools at its disposal to keep things within the guidelines, which at least ask for civil and substantive discussion. If you see comments that violate the guidelines and they aren't downvoted or flagged already, you can let us know at hn@ycombinator.com so we'll be sure to see it.
  - sp332 9y ago
    Here's the example that comes to mind. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14428086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14428086 This kind of comment gets made so much on this forum I had a prepared response ready to go when it happened.
- batguano 9y ago
  Hi Vi! Sad to hear about the change. I really loved reading the things you were doing at eleVR, and the clear and thoughtful way you explained them. HN is indeed weird, but weird in both good and bad ways. FWIW, I'm pretty sure it's where I first found out about eleVR.
- chubot 9y ago
  Yes sorry the top comment was irrelevant in retrospect and I responded to it. It was interesting in its own right but not relevant to what the original article is about and what you're doing.
- Grue3 9y ago
  OK, I don't really know who you are but apparently you're "famous" in some circles. However that doesn't give you right to barge into a community and within minutes pass judgement of it. Otherwise you come off like a dick. Just saying. When you posted this comment, there were a lot of thoughtful and relevant comments. What gives you the right to "delegitimize" their words? You're not better than anyone else here.

DanielRibeiro 9y ago

Thanks for your post. I loved your list of accomplishments: it looks great and you all should be proud! It sucks to be shutting down your group. If things don't turn around (who knows the power of a blog post), good luck on your next efforts. Whatever it is, I'll be looking forward to it :)

sah2ed 9y ago

> The HARC group at Y Combinator Research has/had an ambitious vision of bringing back the basic research model that led to many fundamental innovations in the 60s, including a handful of groups in addition to ours. > I think if world events had been different, the timing would have worked out well for a resurgence of this kind of research. Are you at liberty to talk more about this? I get the vibe that, with the election of Trump, YCR decided to narrow their spending to focus in the near-term on large impact projects.

anyfoo 9y ago

HN is basically two communities. I don't like the startupy, entrepreneury stuff, I come here for the mathy, electronicy, computersciency tech stuff.

aphextron 9y ago

>We're not a startup and not looking to reach a broad audience, get investors, or create a product. We even wrote a thing a while back regarding our not being a startup, because it is an unfamiliar concept to many people: http://elevr.com/were-not-a-startup/ http://elevr.com/were-not-a-startup/ Huge respect for the work you guys have done, but I think this is an unfortunate mindset. The real magic sauce for American capitalism that has driven us to such heights of technological achievement has always been about the synthesis of lofty, idealistic goals combined with the desire to make lots and lots of money. I don't think those two things should be separated as an either/or. There is certainly a need for pure basic research funded by private industry. But the real goal should be figuring out how we can do that in a way that is economically sustainable both short and long term.

norswap 9y ago
Bell Labs, Xerox Parc, nuff said.
- panic 9y ago
  Could either of these labs be described as a "startup"? Fundamental research seems hard to do while searching for the revenue to stay alive. You need a stable source of funding, either from a large corporation (like SAP, Xerox or AT&T/Western Electric) or a government department (like DoD/ARPA) -- not VC funding which carries the expectation of near-term growth.
  - nl 9y ago
    That's precisely the point the post you are replying to is making.

ptrott2017 9y ago

Hi Vi - HN's audience varies and topics take time to evolve while sometimes some comments may seem irrelevant they can also lead to interesting sub threads. For the little it is worth - I have been involved in the VR industry for 25 years on and off doing either basic and applied research or commercial developments and gone through a lot of similar transitions facing you and your team. In case it helps - there are a few groups in the US that are doing similar research / learning efforts such as the entertainment tech group at Carnegie Melon (http://www.etc.cmu.edu/ http://www.etc.cmu.edu/) and the virtual human interaction lab at Stanford (https://vhil.stanford.edu/ https://vhil.stanford.edu/). Since your leaving YCR, it may be worth while for you and your team to reach out to them. Good luck.

poppingtonic 9y ago

Which funding priority supersedes this, then? Funding the prevention of nuclear war, for example? Disaster preparedness for large cities?

millettjon 9y ago

I and my children are big fans of your work. THANK YOU! I show much of your work to kids in our 18 student community home school we run in rural Chile. I wish there was more financial support for your team. I would definitely support via patreon or similar. Good luck. You are an inspiration to many :).