4 ms·

In your scenario, does all software now requires a certified software engineer?

jacquesm 9y ago
No, you're fine to do whatever you want. But companies will likely want to hire people that reduce their exposure to lawsuits that will stick. So if your software is going to affect lives and you feel that you can handle the fall-out in case it does not and you are not certified then you're more than welcome to make that combination work.
- protomyth 9y ago
  So, basically no non-certified programmers because Apple, etc. will just not give you a developer certificate because of a possible lawsuit.
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    Apple isn't in the business of providing critical software where such liability would make much sense beyond when: (1) their phones given enough charge refuse to call 9/11 as mandated by law at the present anyway (2) their authentication details are leaked (3) their operating systems suffer security bugs At most other levels the damage could easily be contained. Note that even at present they could be sued for any and all of the above, whether such a lawsuit is winnable is beyond my expertise to evaluate but it would certainly be interesting to see the arguments both sides put forth. So plenty of opportunity to be employed for 'non certified programmers'. Note that almost every big software provider already has a certification program of sorts but at the moment these are just used as either a revenue stream or a way to get people to invest in the eco system.
- rgbrenner 9y ago
  >No, you're fine to do whatever you want. Just like in other licensed fields like medicine.. no wait, I meant construction... sorry no, I meant a field with fewer consequences.. like hair dressing.. no wait, that doesn't work either. hmm...
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    Think of it as a coming of age of sorts. Software is now so important to the functioning of the world that we can no longer pretend our actions are without consequences or that we as an industry can exempt ourselves from the results of malpractice. Just like you're free to build a hut in your backyard you are not free to construct a home and then to sell it if it is not up to code. That makes pretty good sense to me.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
Frondo 9y ago
I would love for software engineering to have the same licensing requirements as civil and structural engineering. For simple stuff, like building a deck, you don't need an engineer. For a lot of basic-enough construction projects, you can just buy supplies and hammer them together. It's only where structural or safety issues kick in that you need to have someone sign off and approve your plans, and that makes sense. Likewise, putting up a brochure-ware Wordpress site, just do it yourself or have some kid do it. But once you start collecting customer/financial/personally-identifying information, you should need to have a professional either do it, or review your code and sign off on it. There's a risk involved, and for too long we just shrug our shoulders and push the risk off onto the consumer, onto Visa, onto whatever. I am looking forward to when the software world leaves this wild-west phase.
- Nullabillity 9y ago
  No, the underlying systems need serious rearchitecting to avoid these issues to begin with. A third-party trying to verify your identity should never have enough information to impersonate you afterwards.

No, you're fine to do whatever you want. But companies will likely want to hire people that reduce their exposure to lawsuits that will stick. So if your software is going to affect lives and you feel that you can handle the fall-out in case it does not and you are not certified then you're more than welcome to make that combination work.

protomyth 9y ago
So, basically no non-certified programmers because Apple, etc. will just not give you a developer certificate because of a possible lawsuit.
- jacquesm 9y ago
  Apple isn't in the business of providing critical software where such liability would make much sense beyond when: (1) their phones given enough charge refuse to call 9/11 as mandated by law at the present anyway (2) their authentication details are leaked (3) their operating systems suffer security bugs At most other levels the damage could easily be contained. Note that even at present they could be sued for any and all of the above, whether such a lawsuit is winnable is beyond my expertise to evaluate but it would certainly be interesting to see the arguments both sides put forth. So plenty of opportunity to be employed for 'non certified programmers'. Note that almost every big software provider already has a certification program of sorts but at the moment these are just used as either a revenue stream or a way to get people to invest in the eco system.
rgbrenner 9y ago
>No, you're fine to do whatever you want. Just like in other licensed fields like medicine.. no wait, I meant construction... sorry no, I meant a field with fewer consequences.. like hair dressing.. no wait, that doesn't work either. hmm...
- jacquesm 9y ago
  Think of it as a coming of age of sorts. Software is now so important to the functioning of the world that we can no longer pretend our actions are without consequences or that we as an industry can exempt ourselves from the results of malpractice. Just like you're free to build a hut in your backyard you are not free to construct a home and then to sell it if it is not up to code. That makes pretty good sense to me.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]

Frondo 9y ago

I would love for software engineering to have the same licensing requirements as civil and structural engineering. For simple stuff, like building a deck, you don't need an engineer. For a lot of basic-enough construction projects, you can just buy supplies and hammer them together. It's only where structural or safety issues kick in that you need to have someone sign off and approve your plans, and that makes sense. Likewise, putting up a brochure-ware Wordpress site, just do it yourself or have some kid do it. But once you start collecting customer/financial/personally-identifying information, you should need to have a professional either do it, or review your code and sign off on it. There's a risk involved, and for too long we just shrug our shoulders and push the risk off onto the consumer, onto Visa, onto whatever. I am looking forward to when the software world leaves this wild-west phase.

Nullabillity 9y ago
No, the underlying systems need serious rearchitecting to avoid these issues to begin with. A third-party trying to verify your identity should never have enough information to impersonate you afterwards.