4 ms·

If your worried about money, is suggest getting a job at a decent company (reading between the lines it sounds like you've put your time in ventures) and having

by nxc18 9y ago

If your worried about money, is suggest getting a job at a decent company (reading between the lines it sounds like you've put your time in ventures) and having a financial plan. A small dose of austerity and planning can make you a millionaire in a short time, with relatively little risk. It won't be more money than you know what to do with, but you'll be comfortable enough to retire and then be as lazy as you want. Or you'll have the financial security to pursue a venture comfortably. The great thing about living frugally is you can actually have a great lifestyle while doing it. For example, I could re-create a fancy $10 breakfast sandwich from a local coffee shop in 10 minutes and for less than $1 per sandwich. You can eat like a king for a fraction of what eating out costs, and you'll probably get better quality. If you're in the bay area, you should probably get out unless you're being paid enough to make it worth it (most aren't). In ten years you can have far more security, money, and free time than the average person can even think of. And its really not that hard. For a techie, living paycheck to paycheck is very much a choice.

enraged_camel 9y ago
Nah, I want "fuck you money" so that work becomes optional. I want to work on what I want, not what someone else wants. I want to work because I want to, not because I have to. Retirement isn't good enough. By the time you retire you are in your 60s, which is too late for me.
- kcorbitt 9y ago
  You can reach financial independence in your 30s if you work for a big tech company for 10 years and watch your spending. I think that's what your parent comment was referring to.
- ruleabidinguser 9y ago
  No one really wants to work
  - cryptonerd2212 9y ago
    I enjoy work. I love having a task to put my mind to and solving problems. What I don't like is the routine, having to be at work at 8:00 AM M-F or otherwise losing my livelihood. It's the requirement and forced interaction that bothers me.
    - varjag 9y ago
      So you don't really like to work either.
  - lkbm 9y ago
    I would like to spend all day doing fun, personal projects. But I've tried having all day to spend on fun personal projects, and it turns out spend the time "goofing off". (Not "enjoying life" goofing off, but "dopamine cycle on Facebook" goofing off.) I like work because it has me doing stuff that's similar to what I want to do in my free time, but provides the necessary incentives to actually do it each day. My job isn't perfect, but it has me doing productive, rewarding, mostly-interesting stuff with a bunch of smart people whom I like and can learn from. It's worse than my dream life for my dream self, but it's better than my dream life for my actual self. I may not be behind, but I still like to feel like I'm moving forward, and work does that for me. On the other hand, I did quite enjoy my ~1 month of working four-hour days a few years back, so there's probably a better balance than I have right now.
    - ruleabidinguser 9y ago
      I think everyone's incentive is to work as little as possible (work is straining). But a culture of shame has everyone instead claiming that's not true (and lost for what is)
      - lkbm 9y ago
        Exercising is straining, but I'm planning on doing a 60 mile bike ride tomorrow, purely for the enjoyment of it. Meaningful work and a sense of accomplishment doesn't seem like it's caused by a culture of shame. I can get that from a hobby (painting, writing, programming, carpentry), or I can get it from a job (painting, writing, programming, carpentry). In either case, it seems normal beyond the boundaries of culture to derive satisfaction from this. It might be a lot harder to derive satisfaction from hobbies with no "productive" output (my long bike ride, hiking in the woods) due to a culture insisting on productivity, but I don't think it's true that the productive ones would be valued less than non-productive ones if not for enculturation.
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  >Nah,I want ... nxc18 offered pretty good advice, I'm not sure what your alternative is?
- inimino 9y ago
  Or you could waste a decade chasing fuck-you money, not get it, and be left in the same financial position but ten years older. The default outcome for startup founders is not "filthy rich" but rather "older and poorer".
  - Jedi72 9y ago
    I have a failed startup in my past too and when it failed some people tried to tell me I deserved the extra debt I now carried because I decided to take on so much risk. I never saw it that way - for me, I was trying to escape prison. Escaping the rat race while young enough to enjoy it is not some luxury like a Tesla or a second home I want to posses, its my life! It's like being in jail, every day I feel like I'm being enslaved - after all if I stop doing what other people tell me (my job), eventually burly men with guns (cops) will come round and just take it anyway. From this point of view there isn't much difference between being well off & employed and being poor & employed. If you try to break out and get thrown in solitary then sure, I guess you're worse off, but either way you're still trapped. What's really funny is that when your attempt fails it's the other prisoners who want to cut you down for trying & want to see you punished the most.
  - ck425 9y ago
    I don't think the parent was referring to making money via start ups. Just get a decently paid engineering job and live frugally.
wonderbear 9y ago
> If you're in the bay area, you should probably get out unless you're being paid enough to make it worth it (most aren't). Agreed. The number of twenty (or even thirty) -somethings I've met who have been trying to make it in the bay area for years and still don't have more than a few month's worth of expenses saved up worries me. Y'all are in an incredibly vulnerable position, and it's not going to get easier to make wages the older you get.

by nxc18 9y ago

enraged_camel 9y ago

Nah, I want "fuck you money" so that work becomes optional. I want to work on what I want, not what someone else wants. I want to work because I want to, not because I have to. Retirement isn't good enough. By the time you retire you are in your 60s, which is too late for me.

kcorbitt 9y ago
You can reach financial independence in your 30s if you work for a big tech company for 10 years and watch your spending. I think that's what your parent comment was referring to.
ruleabidinguser 9y ago
No one really wants to work
- cryptonerd2212 9y ago
  I enjoy work. I love having a task to put my mind to and solving problems. What I don't like is the routine, having to be at work at 8:00 AM M-F or otherwise losing my livelihood. It's the requirement and forced interaction that bothers me.
  - varjag 9y ago
    So you don't really like to work either.
- lkbm 9y ago
  I would like to spend all day doing fun, personal projects. But I've tried having all day to spend on fun personal projects, and it turns out spend the time "goofing off". (Not "enjoying life" goofing off, but "dopamine cycle on Facebook" goofing off.) I like work because it has me doing stuff that's similar to what I want to do in my free time, but provides the necessary incentives to actually do it each day. My job isn't perfect, but it has me doing productive, rewarding, mostly-interesting stuff with a bunch of smart people whom I like and can learn from. It's worse than my dream life for my dream self, but it's better than my dream life for my actual self. I may not be behind, but I still like to feel like I'm moving forward, and work does that for me. On the other hand, I did quite enjoy my ~1 month of working four-hour days a few years back, so there's probably a better balance than I have right now.
  - ruleabidinguser 9y ago
    I think everyone's incentive is to work as little as possible (work is straining). But a culture of shame has everyone instead claiming that's not true (and lost for what is)
    - lkbm 9y ago
      Exercising is straining, but I'm planning on doing a 60 mile bike ride tomorrow, purely for the enjoyment of it. Meaningful work and a sense of accomplishment doesn't seem like it's caused by a culture of shame. I can get that from a hobby (painting, writing, programming, carpentry), or I can get it from a job (painting, writing, programming, carpentry). In either case, it seems normal beyond the boundaries of culture to derive satisfaction from this. It might be a lot harder to derive satisfaction from hobbies with no "productive" output (my long bike ride, hiking in the woods) due to a culture insisting on productivity, but I don't think it's true that the productive ones would be valued less than non-productive ones if not for enculturation.
tonyedgecombe 9y ago
>Nah,I want ... nxc18 offered pretty good advice, I'm not sure what your alternative is?
inimino 9y ago
Or you could waste a decade chasing fuck-you money, not get it, and be left in the same financial position but ten years older. The default outcome for startup founders is not "filthy rich" but rather "older and poorer".
- Jedi72 9y ago
  I have a failed startup in my past too and when it failed some people tried to tell me I deserved the extra debt I now carried because I decided to take on so much risk. I never saw it that way - for me, I was trying to escape prison. Escaping the rat race while young enough to enjoy it is not some luxury like a Tesla or a second home I want to posses, its my life! It's like being in jail, every day I feel like I'm being enslaved - after all if I stop doing what other people tell me (my job), eventually burly men with guns (cops) will come round and just take it anyway. From this point of view there isn't much difference between being well off & employed and being poor & employed. If you try to break out and get thrown in solitary then sure, I guess you're worse off, but either way you're still trapped. What's really funny is that when your attempt fails it's the other prisoners who want to cut you down for trying & want to see you punished the most.
- ck425 9y ago
  I don't think the parent was referring to making money via start ups. Just get a decently paid engineering job and live frugally.

wonderbear 9y ago

> If you're in the bay area, you should probably get out unless you're being paid enough to make it worth it (most aren't). Agreed. The number of twenty (or even thirty) -somethings I've met who have been trying to make it in the bay area for years and still don't have more than a few month's worth of expenses saved up worries me. Y'all are in an incredibly vulnerable position, and it's not going to get easier to make wages the older you get.