3 ms·

I only scrolled through TFA (added to read later list). I am Dutch though. A lot of these systems require enormous (and growing) up-front investments, not feas

I only scrolled through TFA (added to read later list). I am Dutch though. A lot of these systems require enormous (and growing) up-front investments, not feasible for small independent operations. There are a lot of family business in Westland, but they require massive mortgages and/or loans to keep up with the times (and the investments that they require). There are fewer and fewer small farms and more and more 'mega-barns'. Little space is needed, but a lot of it is high carbon and high capital.

WJW 9y ago
Also needed is a very stable environment, but infrastructurally and politically. A lot of these investments would never be feasible without for example the stability of the electricity network or the road network. It can be argued if this is caused by the government, but the Dutch seem more maintenance-minded than most other countries I visited. Probably caused by all the dikes: if not maintaining something properly will kill your entire village, you have a lot of incentive to become very good at it.
- bbvnvlt 9y ago
  We have, in fact, a dedicated form of local government for water management [1], and: > These regional water authorities are among the oldest forms of local government in the Netherlands, some of them having been founded in the 13th century. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_board_(Netherlands) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_board_(Netherlands)
JumpCrisscross 9y ago
To add to your point about economies of scale, Indian farmers are a reliable political bloc. Turning a million unproductive farmers into 10,000 highly-productive ones is, from a political perspective, disastrous if you rely on that bloc. It's a similar phenomenon to public union political capture in certain American cities.
pakitan 9y ago
Yeah, I was wondering about that. Some of those farms look like they have million(s) dollars worth of equipment and infrastructure. And farming isn't exactly a high-margin industry so starting a new farm must be quite a risky venture. Are there government programs that help with the financing or it's all private capital?
- bbvnvlt 9y ago
  There are both subsidies and loan programs. As far as I know (I am not a farmer, nor do I know any greenhouse farmers very well), lots of it is private capital though. One of the biggest banks in the Netherlands (Rabobank) has a (positive) reputation for financing farmers and other agricultural firms. (also a negative one due to the LIBOR scandal, incidentally)
- gpvos 9y ago
  We have a bank (Rabobank) that is extremely good at financing agricultural investments.
davedx 9y ago
Lots of natural gas and coal to keep those greenhouses warm, indeed! This will probably change though: https://blog.maripositas.org/horticulture/greenhouse-systems-built-from-2020-will-be-energy-neutral https://blog.maripositas.org/horticulture/greenhouse-systems...
- ricardobeat 9y ago
  > The growing environment is kept at optimal temperatures year-round by heat generated from geothermal aquifers

WJW 9y ago

Also needed is a very stable environment, but infrastructurally and politically. A lot of these investments would never be feasible without for example the stability of the electricity network or the road network. It can be argued if this is caused by the government, but the Dutch seem more maintenance-minded than most other countries I visited. Probably caused by all the dikes: if not maintaining something properly will kill your entire village, you have a lot of incentive to become very good at it.

bbvnvlt 9y ago
We have, in fact, a dedicated form of local government for water management [1], and: > These regional water authorities are among the oldest forms of local government in the Netherlands, some of them having been founded in the 13th century. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_board_(Netherlands) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_board_(Netherlands)

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

To add to your point about economies of scale, Indian farmers are a reliable political bloc. Turning a million unproductive farmers into 10,000 highly-productive ones is, from a political perspective, disastrous if you rely on that bloc. It's a similar phenomenon to public union political capture in certain American cities.

pakitan 9y ago

Yeah, I was wondering about that. Some of those farms look like they have million(s) dollars worth of equipment and infrastructure. And farming isn't exactly a high-margin industry so starting a new farm must be quite a risky venture. Are there government programs that help with the financing or it's all private capital?

bbvnvlt 9y ago
There are both subsidies and loan programs. As far as I know (I am not a farmer, nor do I know any greenhouse farmers very well), lots of it is private capital though. One of the biggest banks in the Netherlands (Rabobank) has a (positive) reputation for financing farmers and other agricultural firms. (also a negative one due to the LIBOR scandal, incidentally)
gpvos 9y ago
We have a bank (Rabobank) that is extremely good at financing agricultural investments.

davedx 9y ago

Lots of natural gas and coal to keep those greenhouses warm, indeed! This will probably change though: https://blog.maripositas.org/horticulture/greenhouse-systems-built-from-2020-will-be-energy-neutral https://blog.maripositas.org/horticulture/greenhouse-systems...

ricardobeat 9y ago
> The growing environment is kept at optimal temperatures year-round by heat generated from geothermal aquifers