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I disagree. Large wealthy companies are working hard to directly employ as few people as possible. Part of what they gain from this is the ability to pretend th

I disagree. Large wealthy companies are working hard to directly employ as few people as possible. Part of what they gain from this is the ability to pretend that the companies they hire to perform this "non-core" work are entirely separate black boxes. It would be embarassing to Apple to be treating their employees this way so they hire an outsourcing firm to do it for them. As large companies, like Apple, race to shuffle employees to these companies in order to save money, everyone gets hurt but Apple. The money gets locked away from the middle class and Apple pretends that they don't have any full time positions that lack advancement opportunities and decent pay.

FLUX-YOU 9y ago
But if the outsourcing companies were providing opportunities on their own, their employees could afford classes, living expenses and work on skills to eventually work at Apple. Apple gets quality janitors and security guards while paying the outsourcing company more. The outsourcing companies are the actual ones running the race to the bottom. Stop that, and Apple will have to reconsider (at which point, we get to argue all over again if their new solution is morally acceptable)
- BeetleB 9y ago
  >Apple gets quality janitors and security guards while paying the outsourcing company more. I suspect Apple will then go and find another contracting company.
  - FLUX-YOU 9y ago
    All of them would have to obey minimum pay regulation. If Apple knowingly hires a company violating that law, then absolutely go after them. If loopholes come from that regulation, then that has to be fixed too.
    - stevenwoo 9y ago
      For someone who works on site at Apple in Cupertino, the minimum wage is not a liveable wage, even with four or eight to an apartment. We could try a per zip code minimum wage, that would even raise teachers' salaries, then we'd need a per zip code tax for public employees. Or some other solution. http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/04/22/in-costly-bay-area-even-six-figure-salaries-are-considered-low-income/ http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/04/22/in-costly-bay-area-eve...
Spooky23 9y ago
Not at all. The value is being captured by the contractor and middlemen. Generally speaking, outsourced staff make around 15-20% of the billing rate.

FLUX-YOU 9y ago

But if the outsourcing companies were providing opportunities on their own, their employees could afford classes, living expenses and work on skills to eventually work at Apple. Apple gets quality janitors and security guards while paying the outsourcing company more. The outsourcing companies are the actual ones running the race to the bottom. Stop that, and Apple will have to reconsider (at which point, we get to argue all over again if their new solution is morally acceptable)

BeetleB 9y ago
>Apple gets quality janitors and security guards while paying the outsourcing company more. I suspect Apple will then go and find another contracting company.
- FLUX-YOU 9y ago
  All of them would have to obey minimum pay regulation. If Apple knowingly hires a company violating that law, then absolutely go after them. If loopholes come from that regulation, then that has to be fixed too.
  - stevenwoo 9y ago
    For someone who works on site at Apple in Cupertino, the minimum wage is not a liveable wage, even with four or eight to an apartment. We could try a per zip code minimum wage, that would even raise teachers' salaries, then we'd need a per zip code tax for public employees. Or some other solution. http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/04/22/in-costly-bay-area-even-six-figure-salaries-are-considered-low-income/ http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/04/22/in-costly-bay-area-eve...

Spooky23 9y ago

Not at all. The value is being captured by the contractor and middlemen. Generally speaking, outsourced staff make around 15-20% of the billing rate.