13 ms·

For the past 10 years, I only spent about 4 to 8 hours per week on entertainment - All the rest of my time was divided between work and sleep (I only sleep 5 ho

For the past 10 years, I only spent about 4 to 8 hours per week on entertainment - All the rest of my time was divided between work and sleep (I only sleep 5 hours per day on weekdays). Financially, I have nothing to show for it unfortunately so I really feel like I'm behind and that I've missed the boat on many things. What makes it particularly difficult is that I was working really hard the whole time - When I read articles about (comparatively) lazy people who feel that they are behind, it makes me upset because it reminds me that I should be feeling worse than I'm actually feeling - Because I actually tried and I could have been having fun or procrastinating instead - I would be happier overall because I could accept my predicament more easily (and my mind wouldn't be burdened with ambition). If you're behind because you were lazy, you can laugh about it. If you're behind because the stars didn't line up for you (E.g. the carpet got pulled from underneath you several times) then it's hard to laugh about it. In retrospect, being lazy isn't too bad.

penguat 9y ago
You have invested your time in some ways; others have invested theirs in other ways. Lazy is a very loaded term - I'm hesitant to subscribe to the notion that keeping up with Game of Thrones is any less an investment of time. As examples of the value of such an investment, you can then discuss it with your friends and coworkers, facilitating social cohesion and acceptance. You can use it a tool to encourage you to take a step back, and look at other things you are doing from a different perspective. Sleep is another investment, the value of which has been much-discussed here and elsewhere. I'd encourage you to invest in it. Perhaps your investments have been commercially focused - this is no bad thing. You will have learned directly about the work you have been doing, people's behaviour around you and yourself. You have learned some of what you are capable of - working so hard in impressive in itself, this is a capability you can understand and rely on later! You will have gained a reputation with some of the people you have been working with. If you are still on good terms with any of them, you can use this to better understand yourself, and you can seek recommendations from them. That said, not all investments work out. I'm sorry your investment has not brought you what you expected. Please try to focus on what you have learned and gained, and keep actively choosing your investments. You're almost certainly doing fine, and if not, please ask for help.
- ethbro 9y ago
  > That said, not all investments work out. [...] Please try to focus on what you have learned and gained, and keep actively choosing your investments. This, critically. The extrapolation of "most successful people have a long string of failures behind them" is that, from any point in time before your success, it looks like you're wasting your time. The important thing then is to try and evaluate whether you're actually wasting your time or early but on the right path. Many things are useful here. Evaluating incremental micro-goals: what are the things that will help you attain your larger goals and are your current actions checking these off? Soliciting feedback from trusted peers: recognizing that success usually looks a little crazy (otherwise, someone else would be doing it), do they believe you're on a plausibly successful path or have any feedback in changes you could make? Attending more meetings where people like you are sharing their successes and failures: thereby avoiding comparing yourself to the 100 one-in-a-millions we read about here on HN? In short, worry about whether your current trajectory has the highest likelihood of success you can achieve. Not whether you're already successful. (And allow for a variety of end states that are successful. To some, a loving family is the highest success. And that's a valid choice.)
ianai 9y ago
Don't value the means based on the outcome. Every experience in life is life itself. Take care of what you spend your time doing. If you enjoy the moment then the outcomes are stepping stones to the next thing, whatever that may be.
watwut 9y ago
You should not feel worse than you are actually feeling, there should be no mandatory feelings. Bad feelings over your extended effort sounds to me like wanting additional unfair punishment. In any case, lazy people feel guilt which you have no reason to feel. Through, putting enough time away for sleep or needed rest/socialization is not being lazy. People are more effective when they sleep enough, meetings are shorter when people coming in don't feel lonely and so on and so forth. I mean, being lazy is bad, but spending some time watching a show, reading book or keeping friends does not make you lazy. And I mean, I am pretty sure you learned something from the experience. If you try another project/business, your chances of success go up due to what you learned. If you would watched tv whole time, you would learned precisely zero.
coldtea 9y ago
>What makes it particularly difficult is that I was working really hard the whole time If working hard made a difference by itself, tons of minimum wage workers will be rich by now... >In retrospect, being lazy isn't too bad. Money isn't everything, especially "success" in the BS way the US rat race defines it. You don't need millions, heck not even one million. 99% of the world, and most of the US live their liveσ without ever having one in the bank anyway. Find something you love, whether it's work related or something you find fun, and enjoy it. And/or enjoy the company of people, family, etc.
- enraged_camel 9y ago
  >>99% of the world, and most of the US live their liveσ without ever having one in the bank anyway. Sure, but if you want to have real influence, you need lots of money. We are talking about things like owning media conglomerates and shaping the way the world thinks and behaves. That to me is a lot more interesting than having your own tiny slice of the pie and going through the motions until you die.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago
    I still think it's overrated. Let's take Trump for example - he has both money and power (arguably more than mainstream media since he won in spite of them). Do you think he's happy? He doesn't seem to be. Would even more money and power make him happier? I doubt it.
    - fratlas 9y ago
      I think Musk is a better example. Money is just a medium for him to change the world for the better. I'm sure being rich makes Musk happy, only because it enables him to make a difference.
      - ethbro 9y ago
        I think they're both pretty happy. Musk is doing what he wants to do. Trump is doing what he thought he wanted to do.
bsg75 9y ago
> Financially, I have nothing to show Was this because individual projects or endeavors were not successful, or the companies you invested time in were not? Also, the results of the last 10 years can help determine the approach of the next 10. Until you are too old or sick to move, there is always time for R&R. (Disclaimer: I'm approaching 50 and always feel behind)
- jondubois 9y ago
  Both; I've always had a side project over the years while I was working for startups as well. I must have gone through at least 12 startups (in addition to 3 of my own side projects; each taking up about 3 years of my spare time). All the startups I joined sounded promising but the tech environment in Australia was really tough back then (still is, I think). I did manage to get a small number of shares in a startup which appears to be doing relatively well now but no exit yet (it's also the startup which I worked for the longest; 2 years)... All the other ones just failed. I really understand first-hand what it means when people say that 9 out of 10 startups fail. When I think that my experience of success/failure is probably 'normal' it really freaks me out how bad the odds are (versus what the media makes them look like). The lesson I learned is that it appears to be completely random. It's just about being in the right place at the right time; the best you can do is just change companies a lot until you join one that's obviously going up like a rocket and try to get some shares. I've met a few founders who got very lucky and they don't have the slightest clue how weird/unlikely their success is; they live in a different, much simpler world than me.
  - UK-AL 9y ago
    The test of true entrepreneur is being able to build multiple companies.
anvandare 9y ago
The only person you are ever in competition with is yourself. Our 'competitors' are just the measurements against which we compare and test ourselves. Think of your life as a sand castle. Sure, others have nicer ones (or worse ones), but in the end they will all be swept away by the tide. The existence of other castles in no way diminishes the value of your own. All that matters is that you are happy with the castle are building, because that's the only person you are building the castle for. Life is a game, but it does not have a high score screen at the end. (Or, to sound more down-to-earth: no use crying over spilled milk.)
- sandcastles 9y ago
  Did you just make up the sand castle analogy?
  - anvandare 9y ago
    To the best of my knowledge, yes. It's possible I once overheard/read it somewhere, and have forgotten the source, but it lingered in my brain somewhere. In addition, with 100 billion+ people existing throughout the entirety of the human race, it's unlikely I was the first to think of anything I've ever thought.
    - jaggederest 9y ago
      It's a genuinely great analogy though, and your particular version is excellent. There's a reason similar sayings have echoed through history. "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." Matthew 7:24-27 KJV
    - rytill 9y ago
nxc18 9y ago
If your worried about money, is suggest getting a job at a decent company (reading between the lines it sounds like you've put your time in ventures) and having a financial plan. A small dose of austerity and planning can make you a millionaire in a short time, with relatively little risk. It won't be more money than you know what to do with, but you'll be comfortable enough to retire and then be as lazy as you want. Or you'll have the financial security to pursue a venture comfortably. The great thing about living frugally is you can actually have a great lifestyle while doing it. For example, I could re-create a fancy $10 breakfast sandwich from a local coffee shop in 10 minutes and for less than $1 per sandwich. You can eat like a king for a fraction of what eating out costs, and you'll probably get better quality. If you're in the bay area, you should probably get out unless you're being paid enough to make it worth it (most aren't). In ten years you can have far more security, money, and free time than the average person can even think of. And its really not that hard. For a techie, living paycheck to paycheck is very much a choice.
- enraged_camel 9y ago
  Nah, I want "fuck you money" so that work becomes optional. I want to work on what I want, not what someone else wants. I want to work because I want to, not because I have to. Retirement isn't good enough. By the time you retire you are in your 60s, which is too late for me.
  - kcorbitt 9y ago
    You can reach financial independence in your 30s if you work for a big tech company for 10 years and watch your spending. I think that's what your parent comment was referring to.
  - ruleabidinguser 9y ago
    No one really wants to work
    - cryptonerd2212 9y ago
      I enjoy work. I love having a task to put my mind to and solving problems. What I don't like is the routine, having to be at work at 8:00 AM M-F or otherwise losing my livelihood. It's the requirement and forced interaction that bothers me.
tastyface 9y ago
For me personally, "being lazy" is awful because I'm stuck in a constant battle between my personality (which wants to mould to the shape of my couch and watch TV forever) and my mind (which desperately wants to leave a mark on the world). Every day I spend couch potatoing feels like a complete and utter failure of the soul, and it seems like most of my effort is actually spent on trying to bend my personality into the shape I want it to be. If you try and fail, at least you're still left with that invaluable experience! Most accomplished people have a repertoire of failures behind them; most don't seem to have years of dicking around.
- babaganoosh89 9y ago
  What's so great about TV? If you want to do something then do it. Otherwise you didn't want to do it in the first place.
  - aoeuasdf1 9y ago
    People contain multitudes. "You" aren't a single entity which wants or doesn't want things. There is such thing as internal conflict.
    - ruleabidinguser 9y ago
      Personally disagree
    - ethbro 9y ago
      The two of you are saying the same thing with different definitions.
  - Cthulhu_ 9y ago
    Wanting to do something vs doing something else are two different things. I want to be rich but I'd rather watch TV. I think accepting that you enjoy watching TV or other passive means of entertainment is more important than beating yourself up over not doing something more productive.
- 9y ago
leggomylibro 9y ago
Luck is a huge common factor in all of the big success stories I see, but you do still have to make a moonshot to get lucky with one. I'm sure a lot of garage computer engineers in the '80s have a few boxes of boards that could well have been the Next Big Thing, if only X/Y/Z.
- johnvonneumann 9y ago
  Whilst the luck element is true, I think people place to much emphasis on it, in reality, pretty much every person that "got lucky" had been working hard at whatever it was they "got lucky" in for a while. It's just exposure, I guess if I was making a bad analogy, it's kinda like spreading the board with chips on a roulette table, yeah you got lucky, but you set yourself up for it. Same applies in life. The difference between the winners and losers (All IMO) is that the "losers" only laid down one or two, the "winners" spread the board.
  - UK-AL 9y ago
    Depends. If you don't try your change of that extremely rich outcome is 0%. If you do try really hard, its maybe a 20% chance. The question you have to ask is that 20% chance worth not being able to do other things with my time.
rifung 9y ago
Well at least you don't have to regret that you failed because you didn't try hard enough. Plus, I'm sure you learned a lot along the way even if things didn't work out. I hope that you found your work fulfilling if not entertaining; if not, perhaps there's something wrong. Nevertheless for all you know the knowledge you've gained so far will help you achieve the success you desire in the future.
whytaka 9y ago
Being unremarkable is easier to accept if you tried and failed than if you know you never really tried at all and you squandered the chance.
pg_is_a_butt 9y ago
you are behind.
robot197 9y ago
Are you sure that your self reported data is right ? I tried for the past 3 years to focus just on my work, I cut down fun, relationships, friendships completely to focus on my work alone. And I have almost nothing much to show for it. Looking back on those 3 years, I did some work for the first year, but later on I was just depressed and even though I was "working" all the time, it was not intense work. I was mostly feeling sad / bitter and that affected my productivity. I think a balance is important. It makes logical sense to cut down on fun and emotions to get more work done, but the human brain needs social relationships and fun to produce peak output. At least that is how my brain works May be being a bit more lazy will help you be more creative and make the stars line up better for you. I am not being snarky here, be a bit more lazy, the brain needs fun and emotions.
guskel 9y ago
That totally sucks. I feel you, man. In a similar boat.
ekanes 9y ago
All of your prep/efforts could be worthwhile, you just haven't found your opportunity yet. The path to wherever you want to go might not be linear.

penguat 9y ago

You have invested your time in some ways; others have invested theirs in other ways. Lazy is a very loaded term - I'm hesitant to subscribe to the notion that keeping up with Game of Thrones is any less an investment of time. As examples of the value of such an investment, you can then discuss it with your friends and coworkers, facilitating social cohesion and acceptance. You can use it a tool to encourage you to take a step back, and look at other things you are doing from a different perspective. Sleep is another investment, the value of which has been much-discussed here and elsewhere. I'd encourage you to invest in it. Perhaps your investments have been commercially focused - this is no bad thing. You will have learned directly about the work you have been doing, people's behaviour around you and yourself. You have learned some of what you are capable of - working so hard in impressive in itself, this is a capability you can understand and rely on later! You will have gained a reputation with some of the people you have been working with. If you are still on good terms with any of them, you can use this to better understand yourself, and you can seek recommendations from them. That said, not all investments work out. I'm sorry your investment has not brought you what you expected. Please try to focus on what you have learned and gained, and keep actively choosing your investments. You're almost certainly doing fine, and if not, please ask for help.

ethbro 9y ago
> That said, not all investments work out. [...] Please try to focus on what you have learned and gained, and keep actively choosing your investments. This, critically. The extrapolation of "most successful people have a long string of failures behind them" is that, from any point in time before your success, it looks like you're wasting your time. The important thing then is to try and evaluate whether you're actually wasting your time or early but on the right path. Many things are useful here. Evaluating incremental micro-goals: what are the things that will help you attain your larger goals and are your current actions checking these off? Soliciting feedback from trusted peers: recognizing that success usually looks a little crazy (otherwise, someone else would be doing it), do they believe you're on a plausibly successful path or have any feedback in changes you could make? Attending more meetings where people like you are sharing their successes and failures: thereby avoiding comparing yourself to the 100 one-in-a-millions we read about here on HN? In short, worry about whether your current trajectory has the highest likelihood of success you can achieve. Not whether you're already successful. (And allow for a variety of end states that are successful. To some, a loving family is the highest success. And that's a valid choice.)

ianai 9y ago

Don't value the means based on the outcome. Every experience in life is life itself. Take care of what you spend your time doing. If you enjoy the moment then the outcomes are stepping stones to the next thing, whatever that may be.

watwut 9y ago

You should not feel worse than you are actually feeling, there should be no mandatory feelings. Bad feelings over your extended effort sounds to me like wanting additional unfair punishment. In any case, lazy people feel guilt which you have no reason to feel. Through, putting enough time away for sleep or needed rest/socialization is not being lazy. People are more effective when they sleep enough, meetings are shorter when people coming in don't feel lonely and so on and so forth. I mean, being lazy is bad, but spending some time watching a show, reading book or keeping friends does not make you lazy. And I mean, I am pretty sure you learned something from the experience. If you try another project/business, your chances of success go up due to what you learned. If you would watched tv whole time, you would learned precisely zero.

coldtea 9y ago

>What makes it particularly difficult is that I was working really hard the whole time If working hard made a difference by itself, tons of minimum wage workers will be rich by now... >In retrospect, being lazy isn't too bad. Money isn't everything, especially "success" in the BS way the US rat race defines it. You don't need millions, heck not even one million. 99% of the world, and most of the US live their liveσ without ever having one in the bank anyway. Find something you love, whether it's work related or something you find fun, and enjoy it. And/or enjoy the company of people, family, etc.

enraged_camel 9y ago
>>99% of the world, and most of the US live their liveσ without ever having one in the bank anyway. Sure, but if you want to have real influence, you need lots of money. We are talking about things like owning media conglomerates and shaping the way the world thinks and behaves. That to me is a lot more interesting than having your own tiny slice of the pie and going through the motions until you die.
- dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago
  I still think it's overrated. Let's take Trump for example - he has both money and power (arguably more than mainstream media since he won in spite of them). Do you think he's happy? He doesn't seem to be. Would even more money and power make him happier? I doubt it.
  - fratlas 9y ago
    I think Musk is a better example. Money is just a medium for him to change the world for the better. I'm sure being rich makes Musk happy, only because it enables him to make a difference.
    - ethbro 9y ago
      I think they're both pretty happy. Musk is doing what he wants to do. Trump is doing what he thought he wanted to do.

bsg75 9y ago

> Financially, I have nothing to show Was this because individual projects or endeavors were not successful, or the companies you invested time in were not? Also, the results of the last 10 years can help determine the approach of the next 10. Until you are too old or sick to move, there is always time for R&R. (Disclaimer: I'm approaching 50 and always feel behind)

jondubois 9y ago
Both; I've always had a side project over the years while I was working for startups as well. I must have gone through at least 12 startups (in addition to 3 of my own side projects; each taking up about 3 years of my spare time). All the startups I joined sounded promising but the tech environment in Australia was really tough back then (still is, I think). I did manage to get a small number of shares in a startup which appears to be doing relatively well now but no exit yet (it's also the startup which I worked for the longest; 2 years)... All the other ones just failed. I really understand first-hand what it means when people say that 9 out of 10 startups fail. When I think that my experience of success/failure is probably 'normal' it really freaks me out how bad the odds are (versus what the media makes them look like). The lesson I learned is that it appears to be completely random. It's just about being in the right place at the right time; the best you can do is just change companies a lot until you join one that's obviously going up like a rocket and try to get some shares. I've met a few founders who got very lucky and they don't have the slightest clue how weird/unlikely their success is; they live in a different, much simpler world than me.
- UK-AL 9y ago
  The test of true entrepreneur is being able to build multiple companies.

anvandare 9y ago

The only person you are ever in competition with is yourself. Our 'competitors' are just the measurements against which we compare and test ourselves. Think of your life as a sand castle. Sure, others have nicer ones (or worse ones), but in the end they will all be swept away by the tide. The existence of other castles in no way diminishes the value of your own. All that matters is that you are happy with the castle are building, because that's the only person you are building the castle for. Life is a game, but it does not have a high score screen at the end. (Or, to sound more down-to-earth: no use crying over spilled milk.)

sandcastles 9y ago
Did you just make up the sand castle analogy?
- anvandare 9y ago
  To the best of my knowledge, yes. It's possible I once overheard/read it somewhere, and have forgotten the source, but it lingered in my brain somewhere. In addition, with 100 billion+ people existing throughout the entirety of the human race, it's unlikely I was the first to think of anything I've ever thought.
  - jaggederest 9y ago
    It's a genuinely great analogy though, and your particular version is excellent. There's a reason similar sayings have echoed through history. "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." Matthew 7:24-27 KJV
  - rytill 9y ago

nxc18 9y ago

If your worried about money, is suggest getting a job at a decent company (reading between the lines it sounds like you've put your time in ventures) and having a financial plan. A small dose of austerity and planning can make you a millionaire in a short time, with relatively little risk. It won't be more money than you know what to do with, but you'll be comfortable enough to retire and then be as lazy as you want. Or you'll have the financial security to pursue a venture comfortably. The great thing about living frugally is you can actually have a great lifestyle while doing it. For example, I could re-create a fancy $10 breakfast sandwich from a local coffee shop in 10 minutes and for less than $1 per sandwich. You can eat like a king for a fraction of what eating out costs, and you'll probably get better quality. If you're in the bay area, you should probably get out unless you're being paid enough to make it worth it (most aren't). In ten years you can have far more security, money, and free time than the average person can even think of. And its really not that hard. For a techie, living paycheck to paycheck is very much a choice.

enraged_camel 9y ago
Nah, I want "fuck you money" so that work becomes optional. I want to work on what I want, not what someone else wants. I want to work because I want to, not because I have to. Retirement isn't good enough. By the time you retire you are in your 60s, which is too late for me.
- kcorbitt 9y ago
  You can reach financial independence in your 30s if you work for a big tech company for 10 years and watch your spending. I think that's what your parent comment was referring to.
- ruleabidinguser 9y ago
  No one really wants to work
  - cryptonerd2212 9y ago
    I enjoy work. I love having a task to put my mind to and solving problems. What I don't like is the routine, having to be at work at 8:00 AM M-F or otherwise losing my livelihood. It's the requirement and forced interaction that bothers me.

tastyface 9y ago

For me personally, "being lazy" is awful because I'm stuck in a constant battle between my personality (which wants to mould to the shape of my couch and watch TV forever) and my mind (which desperately wants to leave a mark on the world). Every day I spend couch potatoing feels like a complete and utter failure of the soul, and it seems like most of my effort is actually spent on trying to bend my personality into the shape I want it to be. If you try and fail, at least you're still left with that invaluable experience! Most accomplished people have a repertoire of failures behind them; most don't seem to have years of dicking around.

babaganoosh89 9y ago
What's so great about TV? If you want to do something then do it. Otherwise you didn't want to do it in the first place.
- aoeuasdf1 9y ago
  People contain multitudes. "You" aren't a single entity which wants or doesn't want things. There is such thing as internal conflict.
  - ruleabidinguser 9y ago
    Personally disagree
  - ethbro 9y ago
    The two of you are saying the same thing with different definitions.
- Cthulhu_ 9y ago
  Wanting to do something vs doing something else are two different things. I want to be rich but I'd rather watch TV. I think accepting that you enjoy watching TV or other passive means of entertainment is more important than beating yourself up over not doing something more productive.
9y ago

leggomylibro 9y ago

Luck is a huge common factor in all of the big success stories I see, but you do still have to make a moonshot to get lucky with one. I'm sure a lot of garage computer engineers in the '80s have a few boxes of boards that could well have been the Next Big Thing, if only X/Y/Z.

johnvonneumann 9y ago
Whilst the luck element is true, I think people place to much emphasis on it, in reality, pretty much every person that "got lucky" had been working hard at whatever it was they "got lucky" in for a while. It's just exposure, I guess if I was making a bad analogy, it's kinda like spreading the board with chips on a roulette table, yeah you got lucky, but you set yourself up for it. Same applies in life. The difference between the winners and losers (All IMO) is that the "losers" only laid down one or two, the "winners" spread the board.
- UK-AL 9y ago
  Depends. If you don't try your change of that extremely rich outcome is 0%. If you do try really hard, its maybe a 20% chance. The question you have to ask is that 20% chance worth not being able to do other things with my time.

rifung 9y ago

Well at least you don't have to regret that you failed because you didn't try hard enough. Plus, I'm sure you learned a lot along the way even if things didn't work out. I hope that you found your work fulfilling if not entertaining; if not, perhaps there's something wrong. Nevertheless for all you know the knowledge you've gained so far will help you achieve the success you desire in the future.

whytaka 9y ago

Being unremarkable is easier to accept if you tried and failed than if you know you never really tried at all and you squandered the chance.

pg_is_a_butt 9y ago

you are behind.

robot197 9y ago

Are you sure that your self reported data is right ? I tried for the past 3 years to focus just on my work, I cut down fun, relationships, friendships completely to focus on my work alone. And I have almost nothing much to show for it. Looking back on those 3 years, I did some work for the first year, but later on I was just depressed and even though I was "working" all the time, it was not intense work. I was mostly feeling sad / bitter and that affected my productivity. I think a balance is important. It makes logical sense to cut down on fun and emotions to get more work done, but the human brain needs social relationships and fun to produce peak output. At least that is how my brain works May be being a bit more lazy will help you be more creative and make the stars line up better for you. I am not being snarky here, be a bit more lazy, the brain needs fun and emotions.

guskel 9y ago

That totally sucks. I feel you, man. In a similar boat.

ekanes 9y ago

All of your prep/efforts could be worthwhile, you just haven't found your opportunity yet. The path to wherever you want to go might not be linear.