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What I really want to know: how to permanently delete your entire presense of Google. You can't. Google reserves the right to retain/use your data indefinitely

What I really want to know: how to permanently delete your entire presense of Google. You can't. Google reserves the right to retain/use your data indefinitely: The rights you grant in this license are for the limited purpose of operating, promoting, and improving our Services, and to develop new ones. This license continues even if you stop using our Services (for example, for a business listing you have added to Google Maps). Source: https://www.google.com/policies/terms/ https://www.google.com/policies/terms/

flexie 9y ago
As long as Google does business in Europe, Google's license is subject to law: http://ec.europa.eu/justice/data-protection/files/factsheets/factsheet_data_protection_en.pdf http://ec.europa.eu/justice/data-protection/files/factsheets... While it's not a complete deletion, it's a step in that direction.
- thg 9y ago
  The thing is that it will be nigh impossible for you to prove that Google didn't just set a flag to hide your data from public view, but still has and uses it (e.g. to target you with advertising). There are no repercussions to not abiding by the law if you leave no (usable) evidence behind.
  - flexie 9y ago
    And that is why the burden of proof will soon be on the company, not the user, cf the data protection regulation
  - Filligree 9y ago
    Well, I can't be sure about what the entire company is doing, but I've had an awful lot of code dealing with properly deleting accounts cross my inbox. If we're actually keeping data, then that'd be a shock to me.
    - nindalf 9y ago
      Don't spoil the fun of the conspiracy theorists.
      - quickben 9y ago
        Outside of the crazies, for the rest, ever considered that maybe you are just uninformed? Ten years ago, the ones telling people that agencies are storing everything by default, and Skype was bought/centralized to help with that were labeled as such. Nowdays it's "yea so"?
    - danieldk 9y ago
      If we're actually keeping data, then that'd be a shock to me. So, why not just state in the terms of service that data is actually erased within N days/months after deletion? One could always list exceptions (such as business listings). Either Google cannot really guarantee that the data is deleted (due to its storage system); Google wants to reserve the right to retain some data in the future; or it is actually retaining some data. Otherwise, there is no point in putting this in your ToS. All three reasons are pretty worrisome. Also, what you say is provably false in a more general sense. Google retains all kinds of analytics/tracking data of internet users that you cannot have removed. When you visit a site with Google ads or analytics, Google is keeping data on you.
      - mikejb 9y ago
        > Google is keeping data on you. IIUC that is anonymized data. The whole point then is that it cannot be associated to your account, i.e. cannot be removed when you delete your account. Otherwise, there's a shit-ton of law and regulations around this issue. I'm sure there are plenty of options for you to take when you think a company violates EU law. Safe Harbor got wrecked because a young fellow from Austria thought so and courts determined he was right.
    - kuschku 9y ago
      Well, do you also remove the data from the backups, the backups of the backups, and any "probabilistic models generated from the data"? That’s the more interesting question.
  - rebuilder 9y ago
    Where's the profit in keeping user data you can't openly use, and will get fined who know how much for keeping if caught?
  - brango 9y ago
    GDPR will change that. Fines of up to 4% of global gross should make them adhere.
tpallarino 9y ago
I don't know about other services, but Chrome history is kept for 1 year.
- ComodoHacker 9y ago
  Kept or shown?
- sleavey 9y ago
  Wait, Chrome logs your browsing history with Google? Actually, I'm not surprised.
  - Filligree 9y ago
    Encrypted, yes. It's so you can sync to other browsers.
    - Fnoord 9y ago
      Right, encrypted. And who can decrypt that? In Firefox, back when it was introduced in Fennec somewhere around 2007 or 2008 (I don't know how it is now), you'd need 2 passwords. One to log in to your Firefox account and gain access to your encrypted data, and one to decrypt the data. It is feasible a nationstate can get access to your encrypted data, but it isn't feasible they are able to decrypt your data.
  - sam_goody 9y ago
    Aside for the browser storage, they also log every search request made from your browser. Since the only way to type a URL is to put it into the search bar, that means they get a log of every page you visit, how often you go there, how long yu spend there, etc. without triggering any other licenses or boxes. The same profiling is done from Safari and other Chromium / Blink browsers that have the "awesome address bar" I have read that when you visit a page with Analytics (which is like everywhere) Chrome has special handling so as to give them a more complete dataset without it being the browser that is officially collecting it.
mikejb 9y ago
I fail to see how this applies to deletion. "Stop using services" is significantly different from "deleting all my stuff"

flexie 9y ago

As long as Google does business in Europe, Google's license is subject to law: http://ec.europa.eu/justice/data-protection/files/factsheets/factsheet_data_protection_en.pdf http://ec.europa.eu/justice/data-protection/files/factsheets... While it's not a complete deletion, it's a step in that direction.

thg 9y ago
The thing is that it will be nigh impossible for you to prove that Google didn't just set a flag to hide your data from public view, but still has and uses it (e.g. to target you with advertising). There are no repercussions to not abiding by the law if you leave no (usable) evidence behind.
- flexie 9y ago
  And that is why the burden of proof will soon be on the company, not the user, cf the data protection regulation
- Filligree 9y ago
  Well, I can't be sure about what the entire company is doing, but I've had an awful lot of code dealing with properly deleting accounts cross my inbox. If we're actually keeping data, then that'd be a shock to me.
  - nindalf 9y ago
    Don't spoil the fun of the conspiracy theorists.
    - quickben 9y ago
      Outside of the crazies, for the rest, ever considered that maybe you are just uninformed? Ten years ago, the ones telling people that agencies are storing everything by default, and Skype was bought/centralized to help with that were labeled as such. Nowdays it's "yea so"?
  - danieldk 9y ago
    If we're actually keeping data, then that'd be a shock to me. So, why not just state in the terms of service that data is actually erased within N days/months after deletion? One could always list exceptions (such as business listings). Either Google cannot really guarantee that the data is deleted (due to its storage system); Google wants to reserve the right to retain some data in the future; or it is actually retaining some data. Otherwise, there is no point in putting this in your ToS. All three reasons are pretty worrisome. Also, what you say is provably false in a more general sense. Google retains all kinds of analytics/tracking data of internet users that you cannot have removed. When you visit a site with Google ads or analytics, Google is keeping data on you.
    - mikejb 9y ago
      > Google is keeping data on you. IIUC that is anonymized data. The whole point then is that it cannot be associated to your account, i.e. cannot be removed when you delete your account. Otherwise, there's a shit-ton of law and regulations around this issue. I'm sure there are plenty of options for you to take when you think a company violates EU law. Safe Harbor got wrecked because a young fellow from Austria thought so and courts determined he was right.
  - kuschku 9y ago
    Well, do you also remove the data from the backups, the backups of the backups, and any "probabilistic models generated from the data"? That’s the more interesting question.
- rebuilder 9y ago
  Where's the profit in keeping user data you can't openly use, and will get fined who know how much for keeping if caught?
- brango 9y ago
  GDPR will change that. Fines of up to 4% of global gross should make them adhere.

tpallarino 9y ago

I don't know about other services, but Chrome history is kept for 1 year.

ComodoHacker 9y ago
Kept or shown?
sleavey 9y ago
Wait, Chrome logs your browsing history with Google? Actually, I'm not surprised.
- Filligree 9y ago
  Encrypted, yes. It's so you can sync to other browsers.
  - Fnoord 9y ago
    Right, encrypted. And who can decrypt that? In Firefox, back when it was introduced in Fennec somewhere around 2007 or 2008 (I don't know how it is now), you'd need 2 passwords. One to log in to your Firefox account and gain access to your encrypted data, and one to decrypt the data. It is feasible a nationstate can get access to your encrypted data, but it isn't feasible they are able to decrypt your data.
- sam_goody 9y ago
  Aside for the browser storage, they also log every search request made from your browser. Since the only way to type a URL is to put it into the search bar, that means they get a log of every page you visit, how often you go there, how long yu spend there, etc. without triggering any other licenses or boxes. The same profiling is done from Safari and other Chromium / Blink browsers that have the "awesome address bar" I have read that when you visit a page with Analytics (which is like everywhere) Chrome has special handling so as to give them a more complete dataset without it being the browser that is officially collecting it.

mikejb 9y ago

I fail to see how this applies to deletion. "Stop using services" is significantly different from "deleting all my stuff"