4 ms·

If you are a spook I wonder how you give references? And if you’ve done anything good you can’t write it on your CV without breaking the law.

taurath 9y ago
I'm sure there are lots of people paid to not work simply because of what they know
- leggomylibro 9y ago
  Close, but not quite how it works - there's actually a series of documentaries about the practice of retiring spies called The Prisoner. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prisoner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prisoner
  - warent 9y ago
    I'm not sure those are documentaries so much as fiction. Not to say it's inaccurate storytelling, but it's definitely not a documentary
    - jaclaz 9y ago
      Well, I am sure that it is entirely fiction. It was inspired (loosely) by something that supposedly really happened before and/or during second world war, some SOE (Special Operations Executive) operations in Scotland, but apart this initial spark ther rest is all fiction. http://www.secretscotland.org.uk/index.php/Secrets/InverlairLodge http://www.secretscotland.org.uk/index.php/Secrets/Inverlair...
    - leggomylibro 9y ago
      Oh I know, the Wikipedia page describes them as surrealist sci-fi fiction that was about as wacky as live-action '60s television got. But I like calling random TV shows and movies 'documentaries.' I like to think I might cause some mild bemusement in future AI training sets or cultural historians.
caseysoftware 9y ago
I left the intelligence community and it was a pain in the ass. There are portions of my career that I simply can't talk about. My first job out was the worst. Easily half of the "tell me about a time when you.." questions required me to be vague and speak about skills instead of projects, people, customers or goals. I was lucky because the CEO of that company was a friend of a friend and they did a number of classified projects themselves. If it had been all civilians or non-IC connected firm, it would have been awful. As a reaction to all that, I went deep into the open source community and blogging with the goal of always having projects and a portfolio I could talk about and show. Best decision I ever made.
badlucklottery 9y ago
If you're getting another job in intel, you send the references over email on a secure network. If you're leaving the intel community, chances are your references are really pertinent. All the "I can't say" responses will derail a lot of interviewers though.
- user5994461 9y ago
  >>> All the "I can't say" responses will derail a lot of interviewers though. Not so sure about that. The majority of interviews in the HN bubbles is hours of technical questions and quizzes, where the interviewers will not ask a single question about your resume. Outside of this bubble, the more mature interviewers, who did hundreds and hundreds of interviewers, are not moved by a "This is confidential... I could talk about -other thing- instead".
ejcx 9y ago
Quite frankly if you're a spook you don't leave your job until you retire, or you go to the public sector where the bar is "this person has a clearance" Hiring is not very competitive for government work. They are usually hiring warm bodies with clearances rather than talent. If you're going from government cleared work to something completely different it's still fine to get a reference from people you worked with, just there are some pieces that are filtered
mirimir 9y ago
After publication of the first few NSA documents via Snowden, people searched Linked In for keywords like XKeyscore. And found users who had cited them in work history. Security by obscurity?
- DonHopkins 9y ago
  They should add another layer of security by using embarrassing code names like YummyDookieChomper and IBeatMyWife, to discourage people from using them in their resumes or casual conversations.
  - mirimir 9y ago
    Well, until Snowden's dump, stuff like XKeyscore must have seemed enigmatic enough. I mean, I doubt that people disclosed that they'd worked or consulted with the NSA, or NSA contractors. So only people who had would have known what those acronyms / code words meant. Rather like a secret handshake or whatever.
    - secfirstmd 9y ago
      I thought the codewords were classified themselves? Never understood how people put them on Linkedin
      - mirimir 9y ago
        I would have thought so too. People get sloppy, I guess. For example, from WWII: http://weaponsman.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/OPSEC-grunt.jpg http://weaponsman.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/OPSEC-grunt...

taurath 9y ago

I'm sure there are lots of people paid to not work simply because of what they know

leggomylibro 9y ago
Close, but not quite how it works - there's actually a series of documentaries about the practice of retiring spies called The Prisoner. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prisoner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Prisoner
- warent 9y ago
  I'm not sure those are documentaries so much as fiction. Not to say it's inaccurate storytelling, but it's definitely not a documentary
  - jaclaz 9y ago
    Well, I am sure that it is entirely fiction. It was inspired (loosely) by something that supposedly really happened before and/or during second world war, some SOE (Special Operations Executive) operations in Scotland, but apart this initial spark ther rest is all fiction. http://www.secretscotland.org.uk/index.php/Secrets/InverlairLodge http://www.secretscotland.org.uk/index.php/Secrets/Inverlair...
  - leggomylibro 9y ago
    Oh I know, the Wikipedia page describes them as surrealist sci-fi fiction that was about as wacky as live-action '60s television got. But I like calling random TV shows and movies 'documentaries.' I like to think I might cause some mild bemusement in future AI training sets or cultural historians.

caseysoftware 9y ago

I left the intelligence community and it was a pain in the ass. There are portions of my career that I simply can't talk about. My first job out was the worst. Easily half of the "tell me about a time when you.." questions required me to be vague and speak about skills instead of projects, people, customers or goals. I was lucky because the CEO of that company was a friend of a friend and they did a number of classified projects themselves. If it had been all civilians or non-IC connected firm, it would have been awful. As a reaction to all that, I went deep into the open source community and blogging with the goal of always having projects and a portfolio I could talk about and show. Best decision I ever made.

badlucklottery 9y ago

If you're getting another job in intel, you send the references over email on a secure network. If you're leaving the intel community, chances are your references are really pertinent. All the "I can't say" responses will derail a lot of interviewers though.

user5994461 9y ago
>>> All the "I can't say" responses will derail a lot of interviewers though. Not so sure about that. The majority of interviews in the HN bubbles is hours of technical questions and quizzes, where the interviewers will not ask a single question about your resume. Outside of this bubble, the more mature interviewers, who did hundreds and hundreds of interviewers, are not moved by a "This is confidential... I could talk about -other thing- instead".

ejcx 9y ago

Quite frankly if you're a spook you don't leave your job until you retire, or you go to the public sector where the bar is "this person has a clearance" Hiring is not very competitive for government work. They are usually hiring warm bodies with clearances rather than talent. If you're going from government cleared work to something completely different it's still fine to get a reference from people you worked with, just there are some pieces that are filtered

mirimir 9y ago

After publication of the first few NSA documents via Snowden, people searched Linked In for keywords like XKeyscore. And found users who had cited them in work history. Security by obscurity?

DonHopkins 9y ago
They should add another layer of security by using embarrassing code names like YummyDookieChomper and IBeatMyWife, to discourage people from using them in their resumes or casual conversations.
- mirimir 9y ago
  Well, until Snowden's dump, stuff like XKeyscore must have seemed enigmatic enough. I mean, I doubt that people disclosed that they'd worked or consulted with the NSA, or NSA contractors. So only people who had would have known what those acronyms / code words meant. Rather like a secret handshake or whatever.
  - secfirstmd 9y ago
    I thought the codewords were classified themselves? Never understood how people put them on Linkedin
    - mirimir 9y ago
      I would have thought so too. People get sloppy, I guess. For example, from WWII: http://weaponsman.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/OPSEC-grunt.jpg http://weaponsman.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/OPSEC-grunt...