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It's really sad. I love Firefox, but I think when 57 releases, it'll mark the beginning of the end before everyone switches to Chromium, when they realize it's

It's really sad. I love Firefox, but I think when 57 releases, it'll mark the beginning of the end before everyone switches to Chromium, when they realize it's easier to switch browsers than to find alternatives for all their extensions due to Mozilla's way-too-early deprecation of the existing extension API before many developers are able to switch APIs. Many extensions simply cannot be switched, like Vimperator, due to lack of features in the WebExtensions API or the complexity of the change. Other extensions were developed as one-off projects, like "Google Similar Images" or "Remove Google Redirect in Google Results", so their developers are not around anymore to update to WebExtensions. That and Mozilla's search for "anonymized personal data" kill the benefits of using Firefox in the first place, which for most people is to avoid using Chrome/Chromium, made by a conglomerate advertisement company. Just last week, I updated to 56 beta and despite disabling Pocket in my about:config, advertisements for news companies (Wired, etc) were displayed thanks to Pocket's "popular news articles" section in my previously blank New Tab page! Even Chrome does not force bundled software like Pocket, despite their stronger incentives for doing so. I downloaded nightly 57 and it gave me a preview of how bad the extension situation really is. It's like a forced downgrade to a completely different browser, so why not switch to something entirely different at that point? This is what I'll be forced to do, after certificates expire in a few years in the then-out-of-date stable 56 distribution.

kosinus 9y ago
I'm really not sure and curious how much extensions are actually used in practice. Personally, I use Chrome with 1password, that's it. Extensions scare me. They're a huge potential invasion of privacy, especially with recent hijackings of Chrome extensions in the store. I'm also more confident that Mozilla will always listen to users, and give us the necessary opt-outs. I really don't trust Google as much.
- vortico 9y ago
  https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2011/06/21/firefox-4-add-on-users/ https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2011/06/21/firefox-4-add-on-... Here's an article from 2011 claiming that 85% of Firefox users have extensions installed and will thus be bothered by the change, and on average, users have 5 addons installed. It is my gut estimate that half of these addons have no replacement or a worse replacement. As for the opt outs, this may be true for most things, but I am not able to opt entirely out of Pocket's "Recommended by Pocket" trending adverts, nor am I able to turn off Firefox's addon signing requirement to develop or try new addons from GitHub, unless I download a tweaked build version of Firefox.
  - zbraniecki 9y ago
    I do not have numbers for how many users use extensions, but my gut feeling is that it's much lower than it was in 2011. We've been moving to e10s over last months enabling it for users who don't have legacy addons (so, they either don't have addons or they have e10s modern addons). I found a status update from the e10s meeting from Jun 2nd - https://wiki.mozilla.org/E10s/Status/June2 https://wiki.mozilla.org/E10s/Status/June2 It indicates that over 60% of beta users had e10s activated which can only be activated for users who don't use old extensions. Based on the telemetry data it seems that only 3% were not eligible. I'm not involved in e10s project so I don't know the details and updates, but I believe that the number of users affected is actually quite low (which doesn't mean irrelevant, just that majority of users won't be affected). > As for the opt outs, this may be true for most things, but I am not able to opt entirely out of Pocket's "Recommended by Pocket" trending adverts In the home tab? The icon on the top-right corner allows you to uncheck the "Recommended by Pocket" and "extensions.pocket.enabled" about:config option allows you turn off pocket completely. Now, that we own Pocket, I hope we'll merge it more seamlessly into Firefox Accounts because I feel like the sole fact that it uses it's own brand name makes it feel like Firefox comes with a separate piece of software bundled.
    - fuckyouzilla 9y ago
      > I do not have numbers for how many users use extensions, but my gut feeling is that it's much lower than it was in 2011. No shit, Sherlock. After crapzilla removed/maimed most of the APIs - who'd even think that extensions'd degrade as well?
    - vortico 9y ago
      `extensions.pocket.enabled = false` does not disable the "Recommended by Pocket" checkbox. I was not expecting Pocket telemetry to continue to work with this set to off.
      - zbraniecki 9y ago
        Interesting. It does for me. It's not only disabling it, The "Recommended by Pocket" doesn't even show up in the about:home sidebar. Can you try restarting the browser, and if it doesn't help, file a bug pls?
YSFEJ4SWJUVU6 9y ago
Yeah, sure. Of course I (as part of everyone) am going to switch to Chromium because some add-ons I've never bothered to even try stop working – and aren't available on Chromium either. What's not to like about the Google browser's useless address bar that's main functionality is to direct you to Google Search at every available opportunity instead of being helpful? I bet Firefox users can't wait to get that!
jerheinze 9y ago
I'm not getting your reasoning, are you saying that because Firefox moved to WebExtension only therefore you should switch when other competing browsers support WebExtension only? (Mozilla are and will be adding more APIs in comparison to other competitors)
- vortico 9y ago
  One of the appeals of Firefox is its support for Firefox extensions, which have been around for 15 years. Now, Firefox supports no more than what Chromium supports, so any advantage Chromium may have over Firefox in other areas, like better compatibility of the WebKit renderer with many websites, now may become the tipping point for many folks. In other words, removing the old Firefox extension API removes a reason to avoid switching to Chromium.
  - clouddrover 9y ago
    > Now, Firefox supports no more than what Chromium supports That isn't the case. See the FAQ: https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebExtensions/FAQ https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebExtensions/FAQ

kosinus 9y ago

I'm really not sure and curious how much extensions are actually used in practice. Personally, I use Chrome with 1password, that's it. Extensions scare me. They're a huge potential invasion of privacy, especially with recent hijackings of Chrome extensions in the store. I'm also more confident that Mozilla will always listen to users, and give us the necessary opt-outs. I really don't trust Google as much.

vortico 9y ago
https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2011/06/21/firefox-4-add-on-users/ https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2011/06/21/firefox-4-add-on-... Here's an article from 2011 claiming that 85% of Firefox users have extensions installed and will thus be bothered by the change, and on average, users have 5 addons installed. It is my gut estimate that half of these addons have no replacement or a worse replacement. As for the opt outs, this may be true for most things, but I am not able to opt entirely out of Pocket's "Recommended by Pocket" trending adverts, nor am I able to turn off Firefox's addon signing requirement to develop or try new addons from GitHub, unless I download a tweaked build version of Firefox.
- zbraniecki 9y ago
  I do not have numbers for how many users use extensions, but my gut feeling is that it's much lower than it was in 2011. We've been moving to e10s over last months enabling it for users who don't have legacy addons (so, they either don't have addons or they have e10s modern addons). I found a status update from the e10s meeting from Jun 2nd - https://wiki.mozilla.org/E10s/Status/June2 https://wiki.mozilla.org/E10s/Status/June2 It indicates that over 60% of beta users had e10s activated which can only be activated for users who don't use old extensions. Based on the telemetry data it seems that only 3% were not eligible. I'm not involved in e10s project so I don't know the details and updates, but I believe that the number of users affected is actually quite low (which doesn't mean irrelevant, just that majority of users won't be affected). > As for the opt outs, this may be true for most things, but I am not able to opt entirely out of Pocket's "Recommended by Pocket" trending adverts In the home tab? The icon on the top-right corner allows you to uncheck the "Recommended by Pocket" and "extensions.pocket.enabled" about:config option allows you turn off pocket completely. Now, that we own Pocket, I hope we'll merge it more seamlessly into Firefox Accounts because I feel like the sole fact that it uses it's own brand name makes it feel like Firefox comes with a separate piece of software bundled.
  - fuckyouzilla 9y ago
    > I do not have numbers for how many users use extensions, but my gut feeling is that it's much lower than it was in 2011. No shit, Sherlock. After crapzilla removed/maimed most of the APIs - who'd even think that extensions'd degrade as well?
  - vortico 9y ago
    `extensions.pocket.enabled = false` does not disable the "Recommended by Pocket" checkbox. I was not expecting Pocket telemetry to continue to work with this set to off.
    - zbraniecki 9y ago
      Interesting. It does for me. It's not only disabling it, The "Recommended by Pocket" doesn't even show up in the about:home sidebar. Can you try restarting the browser, and if it doesn't help, file a bug pls?

YSFEJ4SWJUVU6 9y ago

Yeah, sure. Of course I (as part of everyone) am going to switch to Chromium because some add-ons I've never bothered to even try stop working – and aren't available on Chromium either. What's not to like about the Google browser's useless address bar that's main functionality is to direct you to Google Search at every available opportunity instead of being helpful? I bet Firefox users can't wait to get that!

jerheinze 9y ago

I'm not getting your reasoning, are you saying that because Firefox moved to WebExtension only therefore you should switch when other competing browsers support WebExtension only? (Mozilla are and will be adding more APIs in comparison to other competitors)

vortico 9y ago
One of the appeals of Firefox is its support for Firefox extensions, which have been around for 15 years. Now, Firefox supports no more than what Chromium supports, so any advantage Chromium may have over Firefox in other areas, like better compatibility of the WebKit renderer with many websites, now may become the tipping point for many folks. In other words, removing the old Firefox extension API removes a reason to avoid switching to Chromium.
- clouddrover 9y ago
  > Now, Firefox supports no more than what Chromium supports That isn't the case. See the FAQ: https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebExtensions/FAQ https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebExtensions/FAQ