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I wish I hadn't gotten so conditioned to think that free speech is nazi speech. Every time I hear someone defending free speech on the internet, they always see

I wish I hadn't gotten so conditioned to think that free speech is nazi speech. Every time I hear someone defending free speech on the internet, they always seem to be defending the most vile opinions or someone's right to be unsympathetic or uncaring. The EFF doesn't seem to be doing that here, though, yet reading the headline puts me on guard. Why isn't anyone ever defending free speech for good, positive things? I like free speech, but the positive associations I have with it, like allowing individuals to criticise politicians or the government, never seem to be what people on the internet are trying to defend. Free speech should be used by the disenfranchised to defend against those in power, but people want to defend it being used to attack the powerless too.

ameister14 9y ago
Positive speech is rarely threatened before negative speech. The attacks on the fringes of free speech gradually enable the ability to curtail speech in any form.
- jordigh 9y ago
  I'm really skeptical of this slippery slope argument. Germany has very rigidly enforced anti-nazi-speech laws and it doesn't strike me as being a totalitarian dystopia.
  - ameister14 9y ago
    Germany has been a totalitarian dystopia, though - 30 years ago. I don't think you can say anything about a society that is less than a generation or two old. It's not about a totalitarian dystopia, though. It's about limiting some people's rights in favor of other people in general. We believe that this is wrong to do, not just harmful to society.
abecedarius 9y ago
It's funny how things go -- when I was growing up, free speech was seen as more of a left-wing issue. The classic defense of free speech is http://www.econlib.org/library/Mill/mlLbty1.html http://www.econlib.org/library/Mill/mlLbty1.html and I recommend it. Steven Pinker has a book coming out next year that sounds like it'll tackle some of the same themes.
ams6110 9y ago
If you claim to support free speech, you have to support the right of others to speak things you disagree with. We have ceeded some limits (e.g. you generally cannot directly incite people to harm others) but every additional limit you allow on speech you oppose can eventually be used against speech you support.
- jordigh 9y ago
  This is the same slope argument I'm skeptical about. Nazi speech isn't something I merely disagree with. It's not a simple difference of opinion. It's not a perfectly valid alternative viewpoint we should respect. It's an ideology that caused a world war that we should never repeat. It's not something that should ever be protected.
  - tatersolid 9y ago
    Communism caused countless wars, and more deaths than WWII. Should communism be an exception to your free speech laws?

ameister14 9y ago

Positive speech is rarely threatened before negative speech. The attacks on the fringes of free speech gradually enable the ability to curtail speech in any form.

jordigh 9y ago
I'm really skeptical of this slippery slope argument. Germany has very rigidly enforced anti-nazi-speech laws and it doesn't strike me as being a totalitarian dystopia.
- ameister14 9y ago
  Germany has been a totalitarian dystopia, though - 30 years ago. I don't think you can say anything about a society that is less than a generation or two old. It's not about a totalitarian dystopia, though. It's about limiting some people's rights in favor of other people in general. We believe that this is wrong to do, not just harmful to society.

abecedarius 9y ago

It's funny how things go -- when I was growing up, free speech was seen as more of a left-wing issue. The classic defense of free speech is http://www.econlib.org/library/Mill/mlLbty1.html http://www.econlib.org/library/Mill/mlLbty1.html and I recommend it. Steven Pinker has a book coming out next year that sounds like it'll tackle some of the same themes.

ams6110 9y ago

If you claim to support free speech, you have to support the right of others to speak things you disagree with. We have ceeded some limits (e.g. you generally cannot directly incite people to harm others) but every additional limit you allow on speech you oppose can eventually be used against speech you support.

jordigh 9y ago
This is the same slope argument I'm skeptical about. Nazi speech isn't something I merely disagree with. It's not a simple difference of opinion. It's not a perfectly valid alternative viewpoint we should respect. It's an ideology that caused a world war that we should never repeat. It's not something that should ever be protected.
- tatersolid 9y ago
  Communism caused countless wars, and more deaths than WWII. Should communism be an exception to your free speech laws?