4 ms·

As a developer in London I take issue with "skilled workers who would be paid relatively well wherever they live". Yes, I could do python contracting outside o

by stuaxo 9y ago

As a developer in London I take issue with "skilled workers who would be paid relatively well wherever they live". Yes, I could do python contracting outside of London, but there aren't nearly as many. Most of them pay less and would need to take ones further away (so need a car). While I like London, I would love to move out but there isn't enough well paid work for my skillset to justify it.

chatmasta 9y ago
I'm a US citizen freelance developer living in the UK (not London) and freelance is the only way I can justify living here. It seems like tech jobs in the UK (and EU generally) pay almost half as much as in the US, so by taking a job here I'd be leaving money on the table. From what I can see, the tech jobs all pay £45k on the high end, whereas similar roles in the US would be $110-120k. I haven't done all the calculations of differences in living costs / etc, but it seems like a stark difference in pay. What is your experience with this apparent discrepancy?
- Nursie 9y ago
  As a UK contractor who has worked in Australia and the US - yeah what the hell? The money for permanent staff here is derisory, it's terrible. I contract, consult and freelance wherever I can because that is the only way I can come close to what I earned in Aus. It seems like developers here are really undervalued. Though given how god-awful some of the permanent staff I've worked with recently seem to be, maybe it's a case of low pay and low expectations in much of the industry.
- bob_roboto 9y ago
  I've heard this magical number of 45k for software engineers a lot since I came to London. I'm on 60k, without being overly specialised and not working for the financial industry either. Most of the jobs that are being sent to me by recruiters say 60k-80k so I really don't know where these 45k jobs are? I'd really like to know. Having said that, being Swiss, the salaries in London still make me angry. At home I'll get 90k-100k (GBP) and taxes in Zurich are half of what they are in London. All things considered I made twice as much as here. On the plus side you get to live in a pretty cool city which is nice while you are still young and don't have any responsibilities.
  - antouank 9y ago
    Really? You think you can "easily" get 90-100k and also pay less taxes than in the UK? Sounds exciting. Can you point me to those jobs? ( I'm seriously asking, want to know where to go after I leave the UK ) Also, look at contracting in the UK. Tax is less than 20%, and day rates can go pretty high if you learn how and where to look.
    - bob_roboto 9y ago
      If you have a degree and 3+ years of experience, you'll find a lot of these. Just check on Glassdoor, it lists the average as 90k GBP. From the top of my head the following should pay above average Finance: UBS, Credit Suisse, Swiss Re Consulting/Services providers: Deloite, IPT, TI&M, Even Accenture pays decent if you have a few years of experience, Stemford Consultants (that's more contracting though, but pay is certainly more than 100k) Tech: Google, Microsoft, Swisscom, Avaloq (the last two are arguably not tech :p) My problem with contracting is that it's often not too interesting and I also really appreciate a good social work environment. If I can have both, I'm in.
      - antouank 9y ago
        Sites like glassdoor are a bit misleading in my experience. Is there any website to look for Swiss tech jobs specifically? And what's the tax story there in a few words?
        bob_roboto 9y ago
        To be honest I never had to actively look for a job so I don't know where to look. I grew up, studied and worked there until I moved to London so I was always approached for jobs. If you have an income of 120k you can deduct something like 10k so you'll be taxed on 110k which would lead to 20k taxes (in Zurich... other places have lower/higher taxes) Mind you, health insurance is not included and will be another 3k-4k (for a young male). If you have kids taxes will be lower. (all in CHF)
      - 9y ago
- k-mcgrady 9y ago
  £45k seems way off to me. Starting out of university in London is around £30-35. With a couple years experience you can be on £45k quite easily. Also worth noting there are a huge number of contract positions in London paying £300-500 per day. There is a difference in salary between US/UK but I think it's that way for every industry here.
- s3nnyy 9y ago
  As mentioned in the other comments. Switzerland is the only place where salaries are on par with the US. But you can't just work here if you are not a EU passport holder or married to one.
Nursie 9y ago
I contract in hampshire. I'm more of a C/C++ guy, with some Java and Python thrown in. While I could probably make a fair amount more in London, and I do have to commute (often 45 minutes-ish), I've made in the region of £400 a day for the last few years, less in some contracts, more in others. Given the relative cost of living, and the relative quality of life (I'm no longer a fan of huge cities) I think I'm ahead of the game.

by stuaxo 9y ago

chatmasta 9y ago

I'm a US citizen freelance developer living in the UK (not London) and freelance is the only way I can justify living here. It seems like tech jobs in the UK (and EU generally) pay almost half as much as in the US, so by taking a job here I'd be leaving money on the table. From what I can see, the tech jobs all pay £45k on the high end, whereas similar roles in the US would be $110-120k. I haven't done all the calculations of differences in living costs / etc, but it seems like a stark difference in pay. What is your experience with this apparent discrepancy?

Nursie 9y ago
As a UK contractor who has worked in Australia and the US - yeah what the hell? The money for permanent staff here is derisory, it's terrible. I contract, consult and freelance wherever I can because that is the only way I can come close to what I earned in Aus. It seems like developers here are really undervalued. Though given how god-awful some of the permanent staff I've worked with recently seem to be, maybe it's a case of low pay and low expectations in much of the industry.
bob_roboto 9y ago
I've heard this magical number of 45k for software engineers a lot since I came to London. I'm on 60k, without being overly specialised and not working for the financial industry either. Most of the jobs that are being sent to me by recruiters say 60k-80k so I really don't know where these 45k jobs are? I'd really like to know. Having said that, being Swiss, the salaries in London still make me angry. At home I'll get 90k-100k (GBP) and taxes in Zurich are half of what they are in London. All things considered I made twice as much as here. On the plus side you get to live in a pretty cool city which is nice while you are still young and don't have any responsibilities.
- antouank 9y ago
  Really? You think you can "easily" get 90-100k and also pay less taxes than in the UK? Sounds exciting. Can you point me to those jobs? ( I'm seriously asking, want to know where to go after I leave the UK ) Also, look at contracting in the UK. Tax is less than 20%, and day rates can go pretty high if you learn how and where to look.
  - bob_roboto 9y ago
    If you have a degree and 3+ years of experience, you'll find a lot of these. Just check on Glassdoor, it lists the average as 90k GBP. From the top of my head the following should pay above average Finance: UBS, Credit Suisse, Swiss Re Consulting/Services providers: Deloite, IPT, TI&M, Even Accenture pays decent if you have a few years of experience, Stemford Consultants (that's more contracting though, but pay is certainly more than 100k) Tech: Google, Microsoft, Swisscom, Avaloq (the last two are arguably not tech :p) My problem with contracting is that it's often not too interesting and I also really appreciate a good social work environment. If I can have both, I'm in.
    - antouank 9y ago
      Sites like glassdoor are a bit misleading in my experience. Is there any website to look for Swiss tech jobs specifically? And what's the tax story there in a few words?
      - bob_roboto 9y ago
        To be honest I never had to actively look for a job so I don't know where to look. I grew up, studied and worked there until I moved to London so I was always approached for jobs. If you have an income of 120k you can deduct something like 10k so you'll be taxed on 110k which would lead to 20k taxes (in Zurich... other places have lower/higher taxes) Mind you, health insurance is not included and will be another 3k-4k (for a young male). If you have kids taxes will be lower. (all in CHF)
    - 9y ago
k-mcgrady 9y ago
£45k seems way off to me. Starting out of university in London is around £30-35. With a couple years experience you can be on £45k quite easily. Also worth noting there are a huge number of contract positions in London paying £300-500 per day. There is a difference in salary between US/UK but I think it's that way for every industry here.
s3nnyy 9y ago
As mentioned in the other comments. Switzerland is the only place where salaries are on par with the US. But you can't just work here if you are not a EU passport holder or married to one.

Nursie 9y ago

I contract in hampshire. I'm more of a C/C++ guy, with some Java and Python thrown in. While I could probably make a fair amount more in London, and I do have to commute (often 45 minutes-ish), I've made in the region of £400 a day for the last few years, less in some contracts, more in others. Given the relative cost of living, and the relative quality of life (I'm no longer a fan of huge cities) I think I'm ahead of the game.