3 ms·

Not really: it's not bureaucracy that scares us Europeans, rather than the fact that over 50% of the country voted in an indisputably racist way to lower immigr

Not really: it's not bureaucracy that scares us Europeans, rather than the fact that over 50% of the country voted in an indisputably racist way to lower immigration. It's the fact that Europeans in the UK feel mistreated and disliked now.

logingone 9y ago
Indisputably? I'd also bet you're not European, but rather a mischievous remoaner. Many people voted leave because of numbers, not languages. I didn't vote, enjoying the entertainment.
- bad_user 9y ago
  > I didn't vote FYI, when you're not voting, you're inevitably siding with the majority, in this case your vote being #leave, whether you wanted that or not ;-)
  - williamgb 9y ago
    I'm at all sure that follows.
hyperdunc 9y ago
Imagine what the working class in the UK have felt like for the past 30 years.
- corford 9y ago
  Agree but try "last 300+ years" rather than 30. Sadly I don't think Brexit will be their salvation. The problem with the UK and class has always lied with domestic politics. This wont change whether we're in or out of Europe.
- grey-area 9y ago
  Imagine what they'll feel like when they realise limiting immigration will not save them but lead to more austerity.
  - hyperdunc 9y ago
    If it does, imagine what they might do when they realize that. A rapidly changing first-world is producing a lot of losers - but they're not yet disenfranchised and many of them are even armed.
    - grey-area 9y ago
      I'm a little concerned about this. We're entering a new industrial revolution - a lot of white collar jobs and blue collar jobs are being disrupted or eliminated. For example every factory and driving job will disappear in our lifetimes, many office jobs will be disrupted. New jobs will be found, we'll be more productive, and the world will be better because of it, but history shows us that this sort of disruption and destroyed livelihoods leads to violence, revolutions and unrest. We will see a similar situation to the original industrial revolution. I do think it is misguided and harmful to attempt to try to find scapegoats for structural changes in society (popular just now are immigrants, muslims, corporations or evil federal governments), which is why I disagree fundamentally with almost every argument advanced for Brexit (from foreigners are taking our jobs to the evil EU is out to crush our democracy). It will not end well when people don't see improvement in their life but suffer more, and wonder who is to blame if not immigrants.
sw00pur 9y ago
If that were the case, which it isn't, they would've voted against Eastern Europeans, not Western Europeans.
jamiegreen 9y ago
Whilst some people may have had racist intentions in voting leave, it is not fair to say that 50% of the country voted in a racist way. Also why does a desire for lower immigration automatically mean you must be racist?
- oh_sigh 9y ago
  Sure it's fair. We intelligent and moral people in America have already determined that anyone who voted for Trump to be decent facto racist. This is just a small extension of that. There's no other possible explanation. None at all. The other side is evil, and just want to watch the world burn. Can't they see that were building a better world and they just want to live in ruins with their pure bred families.
  - kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
    Not all but certainly a healthy double digit percentage. The rest are easily manipulated followers.
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  I'm sure it's not the whole 50% but it is a significant number, I've even seen it on my own family and it isn't very nice. This part of Brexit worries me more than the economic issues.
ZenoArrow 9y ago
I wonder how many times I need to repeat myself on HN before the message gets across... I voted for Brexit, but I did not vote based on immigration policy. In addition to seeing no major problems with the current immigration arrangements from an economic perpective, one of my grandfathers was an immigrant to the UK, and I'm glad to have my mixed ancestry, if nothing else it made my childhood more interesting. The problem really is with the media. They've set out Brexit as a two-issue debate. The only two issues that get discussed are immigration and the economy. So if you voted for Brexit you're either a racist or an economic luddite. I bet you can't even guess why I'd vote for Brexit without being driven by those two factors. That's the level to which the debate has been simplified in the media. So let me say this, speaking as a Brexit voter, you are welcome in this country. Don't let the media tell you why those 50% of voters (which wasn't 50% the UK population) voted the way they did, they haven't got a clue.
- msangi 9y ago
  You forgot to tell us the reason why you voted leave
  - ZenoArrow 9y ago
    I intentionally omitted the reason I voted leave to highlight how limited the public debate has been (i.e. that it's not possible for many Remain voters to guess any other reasons than the two I outlined). If you are curious about the reasons I voted to leave, look through my comment history around the time of the Brexit vote. I may explain it again later once I've made my point about the media's role in limiting the public debate.
- Symbiote 9y ago
  I presume you wanted to remove the EU's influence over British law. This position was widely discussed in the British media [1]. Suggesting otherwise is bananas :-D [1] A Google search for "Brexit sovereignty" gives plenty of articles, from across all newspapers.
  - ZenoArrow 9y ago
seddona 9y ago
Every single person I know that voted leave did it on economic grounds. I'm sure a proportion was flat out racism but it's nowhere near 50%.
oh_sigh 9y ago
Indisputably racist? Theres no other explanation you can entertain?

logingone 9y ago

Indisputably? I'd also bet you're not European, but rather a mischievous remoaner. Many people voted leave because of numbers, not languages. I didn't vote, enjoying the entertainment.

bad_user 9y ago
> I didn't vote FYI, when you're not voting, you're inevitably siding with the majority, in this case your vote being #leave, whether you wanted that or not ;-)
- williamgb 9y ago
  I'm at all sure that follows.

hyperdunc 9y ago

Imagine what the working class in the UK have felt like for the past 30 years.

corford 9y ago
Agree but try "last 300+ years" rather than 30. Sadly I don't think Brexit will be their salvation. The problem with the UK and class has always lied with domestic politics. This wont change whether we're in or out of Europe.
grey-area 9y ago
Imagine what they'll feel like when they realise limiting immigration will not save them but lead to more austerity.
- hyperdunc 9y ago
  If it does, imagine what they might do when they realize that. A rapidly changing first-world is producing a lot of losers - but they're not yet disenfranchised and many of them are even armed.
  - grey-area 9y ago
    I'm a little concerned about this. We're entering a new industrial revolution - a lot of white collar jobs and blue collar jobs are being disrupted or eliminated. For example every factory and driving job will disappear in our lifetimes, many office jobs will be disrupted. New jobs will be found, we'll be more productive, and the world will be better because of it, but history shows us that this sort of disruption and destroyed livelihoods leads to violence, revolutions and unrest. We will see a similar situation to the original industrial revolution. I do think it is misguided and harmful to attempt to try to find scapegoats for structural changes in society (popular just now are immigrants, muslims, corporations or evil federal governments), which is why I disagree fundamentally with almost every argument advanced for Brexit (from foreigners are taking our jobs to the evil EU is out to crush our democracy). It will not end well when people don't see improvement in their life but suffer more, and wonder who is to blame if not immigrants.

sw00pur 9y ago

If that were the case, which it isn't, they would've voted against Eastern Europeans, not Western Europeans.

jamiegreen 9y ago

Whilst some people may have had racist intentions in voting leave, it is not fair to say that 50% of the country voted in a racist way. Also why does a desire for lower immigration automatically mean you must be racist?

oh_sigh 9y ago
Sure it's fair. We intelligent and moral people in America have already determined that anyone who voted for Trump to be decent facto racist. This is just a small extension of that. There's no other possible explanation. None at all. The other side is evil, and just want to watch the world burn. Can't they see that were building a better world and they just want to live in ruins with their pure bred families.
- kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
  Not all but certainly a healthy double digit percentage. The rest are easily manipulated followers.
tonyedgecombe 9y ago
I'm sure it's not the whole 50% but it is a significant number, I've even seen it on my own family and it isn't very nice. This part of Brexit worries me more than the economic issues.

ZenoArrow 9y ago

I wonder how many times I need to repeat myself on HN before the message gets across... I voted for Brexit, but I did not vote based on immigration policy. In addition to seeing no major problems with the current immigration arrangements from an economic perpective, one of my grandfathers was an immigrant to the UK, and I'm glad to have my mixed ancestry, if nothing else it made my childhood more interesting. The problem really is with the media. They've set out Brexit as a two-issue debate. The only two issues that get discussed are immigration and the economy. So if you voted for Brexit you're either a racist or an economic luddite. I bet you can't even guess why I'd vote for Brexit without being driven by those two factors. That's the level to which the debate has been simplified in the media. So let me say this, speaking as a Brexit voter, you are welcome in this country. Don't let the media tell you why those 50% of voters (which wasn't 50% the UK population) voted the way they did, they haven't got a clue.

msangi 9y ago
You forgot to tell us the reason why you voted leave
- ZenoArrow 9y ago
  I intentionally omitted the reason I voted leave to highlight how limited the public debate has been (i.e. that it's not possible for many Remain voters to guess any other reasons than the two I outlined). If you are curious about the reasons I voted to leave, look through my comment history around the time of the Brexit vote. I may explain it again later once I've made my point about the media's role in limiting the public debate.
Symbiote 9y ago
I presume you wanted to remove the EU's influence over British law. This position was widely discussed in the British media [1]. Suggesting otherwise is bananas :-D [1] A Google search for "Brexit sovereignty" gives plenty of articles, from across all newspapers.
- ZenoArrow 9y ago

seddona 9y ago

Every single person I know that voted leave did it on economic grounds. I'm sure a proportion was flat out racism but it's nowhere near 50%.

oh_sigh 9y ago

Indisputably racist? Theres no other explanation you can entertain?