3 ms·

Can you please link me to some examples of violent pro-communist rallies in the US? Besides, did you miss the whole McCarthyism thing in the '50s in your histor

by vacri 9y ago

Can you please link me to some examples of violent pro-communist rallies in the US? Besides, did you miss the whole McCarthyism thing in the '50s in your history class in school? And even here on HN, there are plenty of people who use the term 'socialist' as a pejorative. Note also that communism is an ideology that is broader than the Soviets or the Chinese of the 50s and 60s. Modern-day communist activists don't go around trying to relive the 'glory days' of that era; they don't wave the hammer-and-sickle flag. As I said elsewhere, if you think that the ideas of the nazis are worth pursuing, then argue for the ideas. Just get a new name. After all, if it really is the ideas that are important rather than the branding, they should stand on their own. You can argue for fascism without specifically identifying with the Nazis, just like you can argue for communism without specifically identifying with the Soviets.

RightMillennial 9y ago
I think @notyourday was saying that Communism has a bad track record similar to Nazism. So if Nazis do not get freedom of speech, then neither should Communists. As for modern-day, pro-Communist activists being violent you need look no further than Antifa. According to the Washington Post, Antifa consists of "predominantly communists, socialists and anarchists" [1]. While Antifa is not exclusively Communist, a large portion describe themselves as such. And they are violent regardless of their self-justification: the Atlantic, "The Rise of the Violent Left" [2]; BBC, "Antifa: Left-wing militants on the rise" [3]; Politico, "FBI, Homeland Security warn of more ‘antifa’ attacks" [4]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/08/16/who-are-the-antifa/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/... [2] https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/the-rise-of-the-violent-left/534192/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/the-ris... [3] http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40930831 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40930831 [4] http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesville-violence-fbi-242235 http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesvi...
- vacri 9y ago
  I must have missed the part where Antifa gets a free pass. Antifa, like nazies, is a label used like a bugbear. Most often it's seen by ideological opponents who use it to discredit gatherings of protestors: "Oh, there were $LABEL there, therefore everyone there is $LABEL". Every time Antifa is mentioned in the media, it's as a negative. No-one seriously gets an Antifa onto talk shows to discuss their views, and they're painted as thugs and professional miscreants. The only difference with the way society treats neo-nazis and antifa is that libertarians don't run around saying "I defend antifa's right to freedom of expression". Referencing antifa here isn't much of a counterpoint, because they don't get treated any better. > While Antifa is not exclusively Communist, a large portion describe themselves as such. This is a categorisation error. When Antifa commits their violence, they're not doing it to promote communism, nor are they primarly communist. And as I said above, communism is a broad ideology - you can be for communism and still despise the hammer-and-sickle flag. Not to mention that modern-day communists don't think that Stalin 'got it right', whereas modern-day nazis do think that Hitler 'got it right'.
  - notyourday 9y ago
    @RightMillennial described it quite well so I won't go into those details other than point out that Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Che, Castro and co have killed far more people that Hitler and Mussolini did but somehow being their follower is not considered to be grounds to be tossed out from the guest lists of the dinner parties among people who have panic attack at a mere mention of word "Trump". > I must have missed the part where Antifa gets a free pass. Antifa, like nazies, is a label used like a bugbear. Most often it's seen by ideological opponents who use it to discredit gatherings of protestors: "Oh, there were $LABEL there, therefore everyone there is $LABEL". Every time Antifa is mentioned in the media, it's as a negative. No-one seriously gets an Antifa onto talk shows to discuss their views, and they're painted as thugs and professional miscreants. If you believe that antifa mentions in the media are negative then you clearly are not watching CNN, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, CBS or PBS or reading mainstream press. At most a couple of writers/contributors tip toe-ed into "we should not really be encouraging antifa" over last week or so just to be met with screams of "False equivalency". I'm not, however, talking about traditional media here. Instead I'm talking about Google, CloudFlare, GoDaddy, Twitter, etc. Youtube demonetizing what Google considers right wing while letting communist garbage stay up.

by vacri 9y ago

RightMillennial 9y ago

I think @notyourday was saying that Communism has a bad track record similar to Nazism. So if Nazis do not get freedom of speech, then neither should Communists. As for modern-day, pro-Communist activists being violent you need look no further than Antifa. According to the Washington Post, Antifa consists of "predominantly communists, socialists and anarchists" [1]. While Antifa is not exclusively Communist, a large portion describe themselves as such. And they are violent regardless of their self-justification: the Atlantic, "The Rise of the Violent Left" [2]; BBC, "Antifa: Left-wing militants on the rise" [3]; Politico, "FBI, Homeland Security warn of more ‘antifa’ attacks" [4]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/08/16/who-are-the-antifa/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/... [2] https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/the-rise-of-the-violent-left/534192/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/the-ris... [3] http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40930831 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40930831 [4] http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesville-violence-fbi-242235 http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesvi...

vacri 9y ago
I must have missed the part where Antifa gets a free pass. Antifa, like nazies, is a label used like a bugbear. Most often it's seen by ideological opponents who use it to discredit gatherings of protestors: "Oh, there were $LABEL there, therefore everyone there is $LABEL". Every time Antifa is mentioned in the media, it's as a negative. No-one seriously gets an Antifa onto talk shows to discuss their views, and they're painted as thugs and professional miscreants. The only difference with the way society treats neo-nazis and antifa is that libertarians don't run around saying "I defend antifa's right to freedom of expression". Referencing antifa here isn't much of a counterpoint, because they don't get treated any better. > While Antifa is not exclusively Communist, a large portion describe themselves as such. This is a categorisation error. When Antifa commits their violence, they're not doing it to promote communism, nor are they primarly communist. And as I said above, communism is a broad ideology - you can be for communism and still despise the hammer-and-sickle flag. Not to mention that modern-day communists don't think that Stalin 'got it right', whereas modern-day nazis do think that Hitler 'got it right'.
- notyourday 9y ago
  @RightMillennial described it quite well so I won't go into those details other than point out that Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Che, Castro and co have killed far more people that Hitler and Mussolini did but somehow being their follower is not considered to be grounds to be tossed out from the guest lists of the dinner parties among people who have panic attack at a mere mention of word "Trump". > I must have missed the part where Antifa gets a free pass. Antifa, like nazies, is a label used like a bugbear. Most often it's seen by ideological opponents who use it to discredit gatherings of protestors: "Oh, there were $LABEL there, therefore everyone there is $LABEL". Every time Antifa is mentioned in the media, it's as a negative. No-one seriously gets an Antifa onto talk shows to discuss their views, and they're painted as thugs and professional miscreants. If you believe that antifa mentions in the media are negative then you clearly are not watching CNN, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, CBS or PBS or reading mainstream press. At most a couple of writers/contributors tip toe-ed into "we should not really be encouraging antifa" over last week or so just to be met with screams of "False equivalency". I'm not, however, talking about traditional media here. Instead I'm talking about Google, CloudFlare, GoDaddy, Twitter, etc. Youtube demonetizing what Google considers right wing while letting communist garbage stay up.