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Nice timing. We are working on "Uber for Sex" or "Tinder + Buy It Now". On the lower end of the market, it can be a low skilled job in the sense that a lot of p

Nice timing. We are working on "Uber for Sex" or "Tinder + Buy It Now". On the lower end of the market, it can be a low skilled job in the sense that a lot of people know how to have sex well enough to satisfy a lot of clients. Certainly going upscale or into niche offerings that doesn't hold true. So our system is somewhat split into people primarily booking on cost and schedule, versus people booking on the entire experience. I think we'll manage to handle both acceptably enough for all parties involved. On-demand? There are a lot of scheduling difficulties. Getting a sex worker on short notice, even in a popular and mostly-legal city is a nightmare. And it runs into the Airbnb-pre-instant-booking issue: You contact several people, they don't all get back right away. Then an hour later, you have several replies, and since you can't book them all, some end up annoyed you're wasting their time. Not to mention any screening issues or other deal-breakers. And if someone does have some last-minute availability? They can't easily fill that slot. It's hard to just offer sex work in a few hours here and there - you'll spend all your time answering phones. But it isn't just the "Uber" aspect that we're working. Sex workers lack cohesive unions and shared resources. We'll be able to pool for things like security agents. We can handle client verification one time and be done. We'll do photography of workers, then advertising and bring clients in. This benefits less entrepreneurial workers that don't want to try to manage an online presence, deal with SEO, try to A/B test their photos and copy, etc. There are other similarities. Uber had to avoid LE, so do we. Uber has to deal with partial cash payments and reconcile, so do we. Uber offers some insurance, so do we (legal). But we'll be far less sexist than Uber, that's for sure.

deleted 9y ago
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venantius 9y ago
There's no way you survive the eventual law enforcement issues here. Uber circumvented law enforcement on certain issues by operating in a legal gray zone - you're offering a platform that will unquestionably make you a prime target for an FBI investigation, at the very least. EDIT: And it's not just the sex aspect of what you're doing. Your business model is going to be so ripe as a target for a money laundering investigation.
- monocasa 9y ago
  Assuming that they're in the states.
  - venantius 9y ago
    Or anywhere in Europe! And don't forget that the US legal authorities have a very long arm internationally - especially when it comes to things like money laundering.
    - jsjohnst 9y ago
      > Or anywhere in Europe! Not sure what you mean there. If you meant their core business is illegal, Wikipedia[0] seems to disagree (of course I wouldn't trust Wikipedia and would consult competent legal counsel if it were me). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Europe
      - venantius 9y ago
        I mean that the money laundering issues put them in the sights of the EU authorities.
      - barry-cotter 9y ago
        They could just kidnap them too. Extraordinary Rendition is possible if unlikely but given the New Zealand GCSB's behaviour they have to assume the local security service/secret police will be out to get them too.
    - monocasa 9y ago
      Prostitution is legal in Germany at least.
- tj-teej 9y ago
  Surely this post is Satire...
JWLong 9y ago
First I hoped this was a troll (being American). Then I hoped that it was Australian. Then I saw where you compared yourself to Silk Road. Now I just hope you have lawyers. :)
- jaggederest 9y ago
  I know they don't have lawyers, because lawyers would laugh them out of the building. Let's build a company around criminal conspiracy, there's no way that could go wrong.
  - btian 9y ago
    Why is it conspiracy? Not everybody lives in conservative religious countries.
    - the_stc 9y ago
      I expect that the moment we operate in the US (next year), someone will want to press conspiracy charges against us, regardless of where we are or local laws. Plus living in a place where this is fully legal (very few places) is not a viable defense strategy. We must rely on anonymization technology, limited trusted humans (core cell < 5 people), and probably rotate our core team within a year or two. High risk, decent reward, and really making a positive contribution to humanity (sex workers are often victimized -- did you know some places won't even recognize rape against a sex worker?). It might be illegal (hence us operating as an anonymous EJC) but it is very ethical.
      - btian 9y ago
        Why don't you operate in places where it's legal? Like Germany, UK, Switzerland, Netherlands etc.
        tim333 9y ago
        Semi legal in the UK. They operate as 'escort agencies' where the agency just provides a girl to escort you as it were for a limited fee and then if you want the other services you pay the girl in cash which is legal in the UK. But for the agency to take a money directly for sex services would end up with prison time. the_stc might consider something like that? It reduces the legal risk.
ScottBurson 9y ago
You should call it "Unter". <ducks>
tgarma1234 9y ago
That is a good idea for a lot of reasons. It would be a platform that could be built out to incorporate drug sales too since a lot of times someone might want to buy weed in a city they are visiting but not want to root around the streets or the internet trying to find a source. So, there is a lot of potential. I think you should do all of the transactions in bitcoin though, giving the fact that transaction processing is going to be a huge hassle. I can't believe Uber is able to process transactions at all given the illegal nature of what they are doing in most cities.
- the_stc 9y ago
  We are going to take a HARD anti-drug stance to keep the platform clean and reduce issues. Obviously we cannot stop users from consuming, but we will not allow it as a service (no "420 friendly" listing). But introducing drugs puts a higher strain on our security forces, and just makes things messier all around. It'll invite more public criticism. What we are doing improves the lives and safety of sex workers. Adding drugs to the mix detracts. We are going to accept cash as well as cryptocurrencies (preferably ZCash or Monero). Cash reduces the barrier to entry as people already pay for services in cash. In some markets, in limited cases (higher-cost workers) we may accept credit cards, too, but it's tricky. A lot of workers already do, so it's possible, just a pain.
thinbeige 9y ago
As much as I like your boldness and ambition for a total anonymous company you forget one thing: Once you work with people (what you do, your team has five members you wrote) you will have conflicts and then you might be blackmailed by your own team. However, you shouldn't care since you are operating in and for countries where your operation is legal. So, why all this anonymization buzz? There is a founder who does what do publicly as a female CEOs creating huge press awareness (of course not in the US).
- the_stc 9y ago
  There are few jurisdiction where everything relating to prostitution is legal. And once you operate in countries where it's not, you're opening yourself up to attacks and really relying on some country to not be convinced to extradite you or invent charges. The core team is much smaller than that. There are a couple advisers/seed investors, but they are not all aware of each other (that's the 5 number). In every person's case, this is not our first rodeo. This is one of the key issues and I feel we have it handled. Everyone else will be hired in a trustless manner and investors have no part in day to day operations.
  - michaelchisari 9y ago
    There are few jurisdiction where everything relating to prostitution is legal. The few jurisdictions where it is legal, it is extremely regulated, and they don't mess around with the rules surrounding it. The places where it isn't legal, you'll be running up against both governments and criminal organizations. I really hope this is all a troll, but the fact that I'm not 100% sure worries me.
    - the_stc 9y ago
      >The few jurisdictions where it is legal, it is extremely regulated, and they don't mess around with the rules surrounding it. That is why we are not relying on any specific jurisdiction but operating extrajurisdictionally. This is not a troll. Two of us have already quit our jobs and have been on this full time for a couple months.
gcb0 9y ago
so it is more like airbnb. schedule Management hell. plus lawsuits from everywhere :)
john_moscow 9y ago
So let's see: * Accepting the investments and actually delivering what's promised. Massive risk from organizing/coordinating an actual team, pissing off authorities, huge contact surface with many involved people that will happily help FBI trace the founders. * Running away with the money. Low risk, low contact surface (website + bitcoin, similar to WannaCry?), 100% anonymous. Nobody will run to the police claiming that they have invested into something illegal and looked down upon lured in by a 200% ROI promise and now want they money back. Stepping into the founders' shoes, I'd say it's much riskier to NOT run away with the money...
- the_stc 9y ago
  We already have a core team, and 2 other trustworthy, known, not-first-time, people to bring on. The rest will be hired in a fully trustless fashion. Unlike other ICOs[1], we're offering shares with dividends. Plus, we have an actual, real, business model that can generate significant profits. 1: I hate the term ICO for what we're doing, but calling it an IPO generated confusion. We're quick to distinguish the difference, though.
mhh__ 9y ago
I am not a lawyer, so all ideas from here on are probably wrong either because of something obvious or because of some common law ruling. In the UK, Prostitution is not illegal, but running a brothel/pimping is illegal. Therefore, I think a sufficiently, generic service might be able to operate in the UK (If it were done on the basis of one prostitute operating their own shop - so to speak). This is of course dependent on whether it is illegal to pimp out oneself. Not being a lawyer, however, I don't know whether whether an implication of prostitution (even if the service were generic) would be sufficient to prosecute on grounds of pimping/running an e-brothel.
lancewiggs 9y ago
Along with all the other valid criticism below you also seem to be assuming that the sex working business has a problem to solve. Do you actually have sex workers on staff? Have you talked to an entity like the Prostitute's Collective here in New Zealand (sex working is decriminalised here in NZ and the PC was heavily involved) about what their members would want? I suspect that Clients and sex workers are really going to struggle with the technical complexity, unknown trust layering and eventual demise. Meanwhile every financial regulator, starting with the SEC, will throw the book at your fund raising, and your baiting behaviour as evidenced here will encourage authorities in multiple jurisdictions to track you down. Sex workers have a tough lot, and deserve a lot better than this.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

venantius 9y ago

There's no way you survive the eventual law enforcement issues here. Uber circumvented law enforcement on certain issues by operating in a legal gray zone - you're offering a platform that will unquestionably make you a prime target for an FBI investigation, at the very least. EDIT: And it's not just the sex aspect of what you're doing. Your business model is going to be so ripe as a target for a money laundering investigation.

monocasa 9y ago
Assuming that they're in the states.
- venantius 9y ago
  Or anywhere in Europe! And don't forget that the US legal authorities have a very long arm internationally - especially when it comes to things like money laundering.
  - jsjohnst 9y ago
    > Or anywhere in Europe! Not sure what you mean there. If you meant their core business is illegal, Wikipedia[0] seems to disagree (of course I wouldn't trust Wikipedia and would consult competent legal counsel if it were me). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Europe
    - venantius 9y ago
      I mean that the money laundering issues put them in the sights of the EU authorities.
    - barry-cotter 9y ago
      They could just kidnap them too. Extraordinary Rendition is possible if unlikely but given the New Zealand GCSB's behaviour they have to assume the local security service/secret police will be out to get them too.
  - monocasa 9y ago
    Prostitution is legal in Germany at least.
tj-teej 9y ago
Surely this post is Satire...

JWLong 9y ago

First I hoped this was a troll (being American). Then I hoped that it was Australian. Then I saw where you compared yourself to Silk Road. Now I just hope you have lawyers. :)

jaggederest 9y ago
I know they don't have lawyers, because lawyers would laugh them out of the building. Let's build a company around criminal conspiracy, there's no way that could go wrong.
- btian 9y ago
  Why is it conspiracy? Not everybody lives in conservative religious countries.
  - the_stc 9y ago
    I expect that the moment we operate in the US (next year), someone will want to press conspiracy charges against us, regardless of where we are or local laws. Plus living in a place where this is fully legal (very few places) is not a viable defense strategy. We must rely on anonymization technology, limited trusted humans (core cell < 5 people), and probably rotate our core team within a year or two. High risk, decent reward, and really making a positive contribution to humanity (sex workers are often victimized -- did you know some places won't even recognize rape against a sex worker?). It might be illegal (hence us operating as an anonymous EJC) but it is very ethical.
    - btian 9y ago
      Why don't you operate in places where it's legal? Like Germany, UK, Switzerland, Netherlands etc.
      - tim333 9y ago
        Semi legal in the UK. They operate as 'escort agencies' where the agency just provides a girl to escort you as it were for a limited fee and then if you want the other services you pay the girl in cash which is legal in the UK. But for the agency to take a money directly for sex services would end up with prison time. the_stc might consider something like that? It reduces the legal risk.

ScottBurson 9y ago

You should call it "Unter". <ducks>

tgarma1234 9y ago

That is a good idea for a lot of reasons. It would be a platform that could be built out to incorporate drug sales too since a lot of times someone might want to buy weed in a city they are visiting but not want to root around the streets or the internet trying to find a source. So, there is a lot of potential. I think you should do all of the transactions in bitcoin though, giving the fact that transaction processing is going to be a huge hassle. I can't believe Uber is able to process transactions at all given the illegal nature of what they are doing in most cities.

the_stc 9y ago
We are going to take a HARD anti-drug stance to keep the platform clean and reduce issues. Obviously we cannot stop users from consuming, but we will not allow it as a service (no "420 friendly" listing). But introducing drugs puts a higher strain on our security forces, and just makes things messier all around. It'll invite more public criticism. What we are doing improves the lives and safety of sex workers. Adding drugs to the mix detracts. We are going to accept cash as well as cryptocurrencies (preferably ZCash or Monero). Cash reduces the barrier to entry as people already pay for services in cash. In some markets, in limited cases (higher-cost workers) we may accept credit cards, too, but it's tricky. A lot of workers already do, so it's possible, just a pain.

thinbeige 9y ago

As much as I like your boldness and ambition for a total anonymous company you forget one thing: Once you work with people (what you do, your team has five members you wrote) you will have conflicts and then you might be blackmailed by your own team. However, you shouldn't care since you are operating in and for countries where your operation is legal. So, why all this anonymization buzz? There is a founder who does what do publicly as a female CEOs creating huge press awareness (of course not in the US).

the_stc 9y ago
There are few jurisdiction where everything relating to prostitution is legal. And once you operate in countries where it's not, you're opening yourself up to attacks and really relying on some country to not be convinced to extradite you or invent charges. The core team is much smaller than that. There are a couple advisers/seed investors, but they are not all aware of each other (that's the 5 number). In every person's case, this is not our first rodeo. This is one of the key issues and I feel we have it handled. Everyone else will be hired in a trustless manner and investors have no part in day to day operations.
- michaelchisari 9y ago
  There are few jurisdiction where everything relating to prostitution is legal. The few jurisdictions where it is legal, it is extremely regulated, and they don't mess around with the rules surrounding it. The places where it isn't legal, you'll be running up against both governments and criminal organizations. I really hope this is all a troll, but the fact that I'm not 100% sure worries me.
  - the_stc 9y ago
    >The few jurisdictions where it is legal, it is extremely regulated, and they don't mess around with the rules surrounding it. That is why we are not relying on any specific jurisdiction but operating extrajurisdictionally. This is not a troll. Two of us have already quit our jobs and have been on this full time for a couple months.

gcb0 9y ago

so it is more like airbnb. schedule Management hell. plus lawsuits from everywhere :)

john_moscow 9y ago

So let's see: * Accepting the investments and actually delivering what's promised. Massive risk from organizing/coordinating an actual team, pissing off authorities, huge contact surface with many involved people that will happily help FBI trace the founders. * Running away with the money. Low risk, low contact surface (website + bitcoin, similar to WannaCry?), 100% anonymous. Nobody will run to the police claiming that they have invested into something illegal and looked down upon lured in by a 200% ROI promise and now want they money back. Stepping into the founders' shoes, I'd say it's much riskier to NOT run away with the money...

the_stc 9y ago
We already have a core team, and 2 other trustworthy, known, not-first-time, people to bring on. The rest will be hired in a fully trustless fashion. Unlike other ICOs[1], we're offering shares with dividends. Plus, we have an actual, real, business model that can generate significant profits. 1: I hate the term ICO for what we're doing, but calling it an IPO generated confusion. We're quick to distinguish the difference, though.

mhh__ 9y ago

I am not a lawyer, so all ideas from here on are probably wrong either because of something obvious or because of some common law ruling. In the UK, Prostitution is not illegal, but running a brothel/pimping is illegal. Therefore, I think a sufficiently, generic service might be able to operate in the UK (If it were done on the basis of one prostitute operating their own shop - so to speak). This is of course dependent on whether it is illegal to pimp out oneself. Not being a lawyer, however, I don't know whether whether an implication of prostitution (even if the service were generic) would be sufficient to prosecute on grounds of pimping/running an e-brothel.

lancewiggs 9y ago

Along with all the other valid criticism below you also seem to be assuming that the sex working business has a problem to solve. Do you actually have sex workers on staff? Have you talked to an entity like the Prostitute's Collective here in New Zealand (sex working is decriminalised here in NZ and the PC was heavily involved) about what their members would want? I suspect that Clients and sex workers are really going to struggle with the technical complexity, unknown trust layering and eventual demise. Meanwhile every financial regulator, starting with the SEC, will throw the book at your fund raising, and your baiting behaviour as evidenced here will encourage authorities in multiple jurisdictions to track you down. Sex workers have a tough lot, and deserve a lot better than this.