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AvE tore one of their machines down awhile back[0]. It's so over engineered, I was wondering how they'd ever make money back with their business model. [0] ht

by fsckin 9y ago

AvE tore one of their machines down awhile back[0]. It's so over engineered, I was wondering how they'd ever make money back with their business model. [0] https://youtu.be/_Cp-BGQfpHQ https://youtu.be/_Cp-BGQfpHQ

x0x0 9y ago
this is another teardown with a similar conclusion https://blog.bolt.io/heres-why-juicero-s-press-is-so-expensive-6add74594e50 https://blog.bolt.io/heres-why-juicero-s-press-is-so-expensi...
- trendia 9y ago
  I love how Bolt.io tore down a pair of Beats headphones and came to the opposite conclusion -- that they were a ripoff and that the components inside in no way justified the pricetag. But, take a look at the quality of the internals of Juicero vs. Beats headphones and realize that one of the companies is worth $1.5B while the other is shutting down.
  - to3m 9y ago
    I think you mean "so", not "but" :)
  - JimDabell 9y ago
    That "Beats" teardown was with a counterfeit pair of headphones. Even so, I don't think a large difference between the BOM and the price the consumer pays is necessarily a ripoff. There's more to a product than simply how much it costs to manufacture.
    - Laforet 9y ago
      The counterfeit pair probably had a more reasonable frequency response than the genuine product it was trying to imitate, so much for Beat's famous distorted bass.
    - kuschku 9y ago
      > Even so, I don't think a large difference between the BOM and the price the consumer pays is necessarily a ripoff. Actually, in some jurisdictions, if that difference goes over 12.5% of the paid price, and the customer is not specifically informed about this (and about potential cheaper competitors), the contract is not valid.
      - JimDabell 9y ago
        I've not heard of that before. Where is this?
        kuschku 9y ago
        Germany used to have laws similar to this for centuries (also in terms of a limit of how high interest could be, and a general profit limit, see "Wucher"), but many parts of these rules have been removed over the decades and centuries.
- dsfyu404ed 9y ago
  Holy crap. That's the kind of thing I expect from undergrads who don't know what COTS stands for. Like how do you convince yourself that this is a sane design for something more than a prototype? Using more off the shelf stuff might result a little more weight and a higher overall part count but the cost savings would be huge.
campground 9y ago
I always assumed that the revenue was going to come from selling the bags of fruit. The machine is easily and cheaply cloned, but a network for distributing prepackaged produce would be much harder to copy and provide the recurring revenue that really matters.
- jerf 9y ago
  I've wondered if some of the problem here is how many people involved are so well off, the VCs especially, that they've forgotten what $40/week is to the vast bulk of people in the world, or even in the industrialized countries. That's on the order of 5% of the median total income and a great deal more than 5% of the median disposable income in the US. I wonder how many people just forgot how expensive that is and how small the market is for that level of extravagance.
gregmac 9y ago
He sums this up well [1] (paraphrasing): > This is what you get with no constraints. Building something that lasts and doesn't break the bank is what's hard. This thing will last forever, but it's a machine to squeeze pre-masticated fruit in a plastic bag that costs $400. I've watched this before and just skipped through to find that bit, but I'm fairly certain he also mentions at one point how they're almost certainly selling the juicer itself at a loss, which makes the whole thing that much more absurd. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cp-BGQfpHQ&t=37m09s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cp-BGQfpHQ&t=37m09s
- teddyh 9y ago
  > I'm fairly certain he also mentions at one point how they're almost certainly selling the juicer itself at a loss Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cp-BGQfpHQ&t=15m07s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cp-BGQfpHQ&t=15m07s and here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cp-BGQfpHQ&t=33m42s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cp-BGQfpHQ&t=33m42s
  - samstave 9y ago
    After watching the teardown video - I really want one of these things - very impressive.
    - FICO 9y ago
      They will probably be available on eBay cheaply now that they are paperweights for those who bought them.
      - abawany 9y ago
        Maybe I misread but apparently the company is offering refunds up until Dec-31 to anyone who purchased one of these.
        FICO 9y ago
        That doesn't mean they are going to require you to ship the machine back to them. (I'm assuming there's tons of people who are going to miss that deadline anyway)
esaym 9y ago
wow great video! Just wasted half a days work just watching that channel's stuff :/
- Devthrowaway80 9y ago
  Likewise. That channel might be the most Canadian thing ever to exist - got a little homesick just watching it.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
moogly 9y ago
As I kept watching the video I thought the word "overengineered" was the completely wrong word, and AvE himself addresses it perfectly in the end: It's "underengineered", "underdesigned" but "overbuilt".

by fsckin 9y ago

x0x0 9y ago

this is another teardown with a similar conclusion https://blog.bolt.io/heres-why-juicero-s-press-is-so-expensive-6add74594e50 https://blog.bolt.io/heres-why-juicero-s-press-is-so-expensi...

trendia 9y ago
I love how Bolt.io tore down a pair of Beats headphones and came to the opposite conclusion -- that they were a ripoff and that the components inside in no way justified the pricetag. But, take a look at the quality of the internals of Juicero vs. Beats headphones and realize that one of the companies is worth $1.5B while the other is shutting down.
- to3m 9y ago
  I think you mean "so", not "but" :)
- JimDabell 9y ago
  That "Beats" teardown was with a counterfeit pair of headphones. Even so, I don't think a large difference between the BOM and the price the consumer pays is necessarily a ripoff. There's more to a product than simply how much it costs to manufacture.
  - Laforet 9y ago
    The counterfeit pair probably had a more reasonable frequency response than the genuine product it was trying to imitate, so much for Beat's famous distorted bass.
  - kuschku 9y ago
    > Even so, I don't think a large difference between the BOM and the price the consumer pays is necessarily a ripoff. Actually, in some jurisdictions, if that difference goes over 12.5% of the paid price, and the customer is not specifically informed about this (and about potential cheaper competitors), the contract is not valid.
    - JimDabell 9y ago
      I've not heard of that before. Where is this?
      - kuschku 9y ago
        Germany used to have laws similar to this for centuries (also in terms of a limit of how high interest could be, and a general profit limit, see "Wucher"), but many parts of these rules have been removed over the decades and centuries.
dsfyu404ed 9y ago
Holy crap. That's the kind of thing I expect from undergrads who don't know what COTS stands for. Like how do you convince yourself that this is a sane design for something more than a prototype? Using more off the shelf stuff might result a little more weight and a higher overall part count but the cost savings would be huge.

campground 9y ago

I always assumed that the revenue was going to come from selling the bags of fruit. The machine is easily and cheaply cloned, but a network for distributing prepackaged produce would be much harder to copy and provide the recurring revenue that really matters.

jerf 9y ago
I've wondered if some of the problem here is how many people involved are so well off, the VCs especially, that they've forgotten what $40/week is to the vast bulk of people in the world, or even in the industrialized countries. That's on the order of 5% of the median total income and a great deal more than 5% of the median disposable income in the US. I wonder how many people just forgot how expensive that is and how small the market is for that level of extravagance.

gregmac 9y ago

He sums this up well [1] (paraphrasing): > This is what you get with no constraints. Building something that lasts and doesn't break the bank is what's hard. This thing will last forever, but it's a machine to squeeze pre-masticated fruit in a plastic bag that costs $400. I've watched this before and just skipped through to find that bit, but I'm fairly certain he also mentions at one point how they're almost certainly selling the juicer itself at a loss, which makes the whole thing that much more absurd. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cp-BGQfpHQ&t=37m09s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cp-BGQfpHQ&t=37m09s

teddyh 9y ago
> I'm fairly certain he also mentions at one point how they're almost certainly selling the juicer itself at a loss Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cp-BGQfpHQ&t=15m07s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cp-BGQfpHQ&t=15m07s and here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cp-BGQfpHQ&t=33m42s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cp-BGQfpHQ&t=33m42s
- samstave 9y ago
  After watching the teardown video - I really want one of these things - very impressive.
  - FICO 9y ago
    They will probably be available on eBay cheaply now that they are paperweights for those who bought them.
    - abawany 9y ago
      Maybe I misread but apparently the company is offering refunds up until Dec-31 to anyone who purchased one of these.
      - FICO 9y ago
        That doesn't mean they are going to require you to ship the machine back to them. (I'm assuming there's tons of people who are going to miss that deadline anyway)

esaym 9y ago

wow great video! Just wasted half a days work just watching that channel's stuff :/

Devthrowaway80 9y ago
Likewise. That channel might be the most Canadian thing ever to exist - got a little homesick just watching it.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

moogly 9y ago

As I kept watching the video I thought the word "overengineered" was the completely wrong word, and AvE himself addresses it perfectly in the end: It's "underengineered", "underdesigned" but "overbuilt".