4 ms·

But supply is meeting demand at that point, right? It implies a shortage, because of the price point. Because demand far outstrips supply, which drives price u

by basseq 9y ago

But supply is meeting demand at that point, right? It implies a shortage, because of the price point. Because demand far outstrips supply, which drives price up.

stale2002 9y ago
And now to bring things full circle, if tech salaries are very high, doesn't this ALSO imply a shortage of programmers, as demand is far outstripping supply?
- thanksgiving 9y ago
  I'd say no. We can't compartmentalize things like this. I fully support bringing in foreign talent but the logic is flawed. I want lower wages across the economy but the conversation must start in the board room. Nobody, other than the investor, should be making more than a certain multiplier of the minimum wage. The CEO who got fired from HP and went on to be the CEO at Oracle? Is there a shortage of CEOs? I'm sure if you look within your organization, you'll find at least one person willing to bite the bullet and become your next CEO if you need. Sorry if this was a little off topic. I feel uneasy about our growing inequality in our economy but we can't fix it outside of the boardroom. Did you know that board members get paid? I surely didn't until not too long ago. Why do they get paid? I mean I'm not talking compensation for travel. I'm talking six figure compensation. Do we have a shortage of people who are willing to sit on your board?
  - yahna 9y ago
    I'm okay with CEOs making more money, but what I can't stand is the golden parachutes and lack of responsibility.
    - saint_fiasco 9y ago
      Apparently they do that because otherwise CEOs would never take risks, for good reason. You can't be CEO of several companies, so a CEO is fully invested in the success of that one company. From the point of view of a CEO, it makes sense for the company to not take risks. On the other hand, investors can invest in diverse companies and expect some of them to fail and some of them to win big. From the point of view of an investor, it makes sense for the company to take risks. Therefore investors pay CEOs a lot and give them golden parachutes to prevent CEOs and investors from having opposite incentives.
      - thanksgiving 9y ago
        I am not ok with a golden parachute at all, especially for people like John Thain but also for all publicly traded companies.
      - watwut 9y ago
        What exactly is risk here? That the person is looking for another job (which tends to be succesfull) and the he is not super uber rich, just very rich? I give you that being good ceo is hard and all that. But seriously, calling it financial risk is ridiculous.
- mrep 9y ago
  Shortages are irrespective of the severity of price. Shortages imply their is enough demand that normally price would increase to match supply at a given price point but cannot due to outside forces such as price controls. What you and a bunch of other people confuse as a shortage is just basic market dynamics. Price is high but costs are also high (not a lot of people are willing and capable of being programmers). Cheaper developer prices would be great for businesses but price has to balance with cost and it is useless to call things a shortage for demand that is unsatisfied at a non-market price. Example: would you say there is a shortage of Tesla model S's since I only am willing to pay $30,000. No, because the costs for a model S is higher than that and then everything would be considered a shortage at a low enough price point.
  - greglindahl 9y ago
    That is a terrible example. Above a certain wage, jobs disappear because there is not enough value created to pay a higher wage. That's quite different from a consumer buying a luxury good.
    - mrep 9y ago
      > Above a certain wage, jobs disappear because there is not enough value created to pay a higher wage. Exactly my point! Economists don't call situations where costs (wages for developers) exceed what the market will pay (value created) "shortages". Whether a good is "luxury" or not makes no difference.
  - stale2002 9y ago
    That might be the way that economists describe shortages, but it is not the way that normal people describe shortages. Personally, my definition of a shortage is "There is not enough of X, and it would be a very good thing to increase X". Using my bread example, if bread cost 100$ a loaf, and people were literally starving to death because they couldn't buy bread or other food, then there IS a shortage of food. It does not matter if "supply is equaling demand", because it is a very bad thing for food to cost 100$ a meal.

by basseq 9y ago

But supply is meeting demand at that point, right? It implies a shortage, because of the price point. Because demand far outstrips supply, which drives price up.

stale2002 9y ago

And now to bring things full circle, if tech salaries are very high, doesn't this ALSO imply a shortage of programmers, as demand is far outstripping supply?

thanksgiving 9y ago
I'd say no. We can't compartmentalize things like this. I fully support bringing in foreign talent but the logic is flawed. I want lower wages across the economy but the conversation must start in the board room. Nobody, other than the investor, should be making more than a certain multiplier of the minimum wage. The CEO who got fired from HP and went on to be the CEO at Oracle? Is there a shortage of CEOs? I'm sure if you look within your organization, you'll find at least one person willing to bite the bullet and become your next CEO if you need. Sorry if this was a little off topic. I feel uneasy about our growing inequality in our economy but we can't fix it outside of the boardroom. Did you know that board members get paid? I surely didn't until not too long ago. Why do they get paid? I mean I'm not talking compensation for travel. I'm talking six figure compensation. Do we have a shortage of people who are willing to sit on your board?
- yahna 9y ago
  I'm okay with CEOs making more money, but what I can't stand is the golden parachutes and lack of responsibility.
  - saint_fiasco 9y ago
    Apparently they do that because otherwise CEOs would never take risks, for good reason. You can't be CEO of several companies, so a CEO is fully invested in the success of that one company. From the point of view of a CEO, it makes sense for the company to not take risks. On the other hand, investors can invest in diverse companies and expect some of them to fail and some of them to win big. From the point of view of an investor, it makes sense for the company to take risks. Therefore investors pay CEOs a lot and give them golden parachutes to prevent CEOs and investors from having opposite incentives.
    - thanksgiving 9y ago
      I am not ok with a golden parachute at all, especially for people like John Thain but also for all publicly traded companies.
    - watwut 9y ago
      What exactly is risk here? That the person is looking for another job (which tends to be succesfull) and the he is not super uber rich, just very rich? I give you that being good ceo is hard and all that. But seriously, calling it financial risk is ridiculous.
mrep 9y ago
Shortages are irrespective of the severity of price. Shortages imply their is enough demand that normally price would increase to match supply at a given price point but cannot due to outside forces such as price controls. What you and a bunch of other people confuse as a shortage is just basic market dynamics. Price is high but costs are also high (not a lot of people are willing and capable of being programmers). Cheaper developer prices would be great for businesses but price has to balance with cost and it is useless to call things a shortage for demand that is unsatisfied at a non-market price. Example: would you say there is a shortage of Tesla model S's since I only am willing to pay $30,000. No, because the costs for a model S is higher than that and then everything would be considered a shortage at a low enough price point.
- greglindahl 9y ago
  That is a terrible example. Above a certain wage, jobs disappear because there is not enough value created to pay a higher wage. That's quite different from a consumer buying a luxury good.
  - mrep 9y ago
    > Above a certain wage, jobs disappear because there is not enough value created to pay a higher wage. Exactly my point! Economists don't call situations where costs (wages for developers) exceed what the market will pay (value created) "shortages". Whether a good is "luxury" or not makes no difference.
- stale2002 9y ago
  That might be the way that economists describe shortages, but it is not the way that normal people describe shortages. Personally, my definition of a shortage is "There is not enough of X, and it would be a very good thing to increase X". Using my bread example, if bread cost 100$ a loaf, and people were literally starving to death because they couldn't buy bread or other food, then there IS a shortage of food. It does not matter if "supply is equaling demand", because it is a very bad thing for food to cost 100$ a meal.