30 ms·

There are so many simple things we can do to make more energy efficient homes but builders and buyers don't care. They will happily spend thousands on dumb thin

by dmm 9y ago

There are so many simple things we can do to make more energy efficient homes but builders and buyers don't care. They will happily spend thousands on dumb things that are highly visible but won't spend a few hundred on something as simple as sealing ducts so 30% of your conditioned air isn't lost. A carbon tax would go a long way to solving this by giving people correct price information so they can make good decisions. If energy was more expensive people would demand more energy efficient homes.

ballenf 9y ago
I'd rather see something like nutrition labels but instead efficiency measures in various areas for new homes before a tax. Having bought a number of homes it's surprisingly painful and infeasible to compare apples-to-apples upfront. "Easy" to get details on a per-house level but just about impossible to filter your search early based on efficiency.
- dforrestwilson 9y ago
  I built an Energy Star certified home in Georgia for maybe 5% more than the cost would have been otherwise. It's been a great rental since we left the area. Utility bills or estimated utility bills are the clearest way we have found to advertise the value to renters.
- pcardoso 9y ago
  This is already a thing at least here in Portugal. This is a energy efficiency certificate that is now mandatory when renting and selling a house: http://www.adene.pt/sites/default/files/documentos/certificado_adene_reh.v2.pdf http://www.adene.pt/sites/default/files/documentos/certifica... (PDF)
  - ptaipale 9y ago
    All of EU, but in my opinion it's mostly a scam. Companies that perform this certification lobbied to make it mandatory whenever selling a house. However, the certificate does not tell you the real energy consumption. The calculation is based on "weighting factors" for whatever energy production format the politicians want to favor currently, so at least where I live, in Finland - where energy consumption really matters in the winter - when you buy a house, you pay for a certificate that is not very useful, and then you ask the previous owner for the actual energy bills he had, to asses the real cost and consumption. The latter is, of course, what everyone did already before this certificate system. OK, it's just a few hundred euros per sale. A bigger problem in the various energy saving initiatives is that houses built to this code sometimes develop very nasty air quality problems (due to air not changing in some places fast enough, or subtle leakages in the airtight balloon where you live) which then forces costly renovations and in the worst case destroy health.
- FidelCashflow 9y ago
  A blower door test is a great measure of a homes energy efficiency and it's quite cheap to have done. Not sure if YT links are OK but check out Matt Risinger Blower Door Test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msZ_E-4GFs8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msZ_E-4GFs8
- dx034 9y ago
  In many parts of Europe (probably all of EU), energy consumption has to be given when renting out or selling homes. Often, they also have to be advertised for public buildings.
- sarcher 9y ago
  There are a couple of certification programs out there that are well regarded (with vary levels of real-world usage): Energy Star: https://www.energystar.gov/newhomes/ https://www.energystar.gov/newhomes/ Zero Energy Ready Homes: https://energy.gov/eere/buildings/zero-energy-ready-home https://energy.gov/eere/buildings/zero-energy-ready-home Passive House: http://www.phius.org/home-page http://www.phius.org/home-page LEED for Homes: https://www.usgbc.org/cert-guide/homes https://www.usgbc.org/cert-guide/homes And my favorite, the Pretty Good House: http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/guest-blogs/pretty-good-house http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/guest-blogs/p... Honestly, if you're buying a new home and the builder hasn't ponied up for Energy Star, you've got to wonder where their priorities are - it's not a difficult program to achieve. You can find Energy Star builders here: https://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=new_homes_partners.locator https://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=new_homes_pa... I agree, there is little transparency on the home-buying front, largely because adherence to one of these certifications is still pretty rare. Also, it's rarely taken into account in the appraisal process.
  - cyguy 9y ago
    There is also the HERS Index, which is probably the most popular: https://www.resnet.us/hers-index https://www.resnet.us/hers-index. 22% of homes received HERS Index Scores in 2016. It is a simple score that indicates the efficiency of a home. A score of 0 represents Net-Zero, and score of 100 represents a "typical home". If you're buying a home (and you care), you should ask if it has been HERS Rated and to see the HERS Certificate. Source for 22%: http://www.resnet.us/blog/national-renewable-energy-laboratory-research-finds-the-22-of-new-home-completed-in-the-u-s-in-2016-were-hers-rated/ http://www.resnet.us/blog/national-renewable-energy-laborato...
    - sarcher 9y ago
      Nice catch, I should have included the HERS Index. It's a decent standard with wide adoption.
insaneirish 9y ago
> There are so many simple things we can do to make more energy efficient homes but builders and buyers don't care. Here's an article that talks about this unfortunate disconnect: http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2017/04/26/dont-build-better-houses http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2017/04/26/dont-build-better...
justinsb 9y ago
Are there things that can cost-effectively be done in existing houses? That seems a good way to create demand for greater efficiency - demonstrate the value on a smaller scale first.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  The high impact retrofits are better windows, more insulation and new mechanical systems. Getting insulation into walls is hard and at some point doesn't help a lot if there are air gaps. New mechanical systems aren't really cost effective (because operating costs aren't that high; hundreds of dollars of monthly savings on a $10,000 upgrade). For people that use a lot of cooling replacing an old air conditioner can be a big win.
- catawbasam 9y ago
  Yes. Low-flow shower-heads can pay for themselves in a few weeks. DIY air-sealing with caulk and sprayfoam will also pay for itself in a few weeks in most old homes. LED lights pay for themselves in a few months if you get a good price on-line or from a home center. Added attic insulation is another thing that will pay for itself in a few months DIY, or a few years if you pay to have it done. BuildItSolar has a slightly dated but still useful section about cutting your energy use in half at: http://builditsolar.com/References/Half/Half.htm http://builditsolar.com/References/Half/Half.htm
damnfine 9y ago
I, like many others, live in an area where there is already roughly enough housing. There is little space to build a new 1 family home, not does it make sense to. If I tore down my current house, It would make economic sense to turn it into a crappy medium rent apartment building. Building a home is already information overload, you need to make it trendy or economical. If it was clear the TCO was lower with this tech, it WILL sell. But buyers are conservative, and for good reason. That new tech is now their 30 year investment.
- dublinben 9y ago
  It is abundantly clear that the TCO of zero-energy or energy-positive homes is lower than traditional construction. The nearly nonexistent utility costs are immediately apparent. The math will only shift more in their favor as energy costs continue to rise.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    Energy costs won't rise: energy demand growth has halted across the first world (aging population + efficiency gains), and adding renewables each year is going to drive the price of energy down. People should still build energy efficient dwellings, but there is no energy price spike around the corner (for electricity at least). An hour of sunlight on Earth supplies enough energy to power humanity for a year.
    - Retric 9y ago
      Inflation still increases the long term costs. This makes a very important difference when home loans are ~4%.
      - toomuchtodo 9y ago
        Inflation is not a given. Notice how inflation can't be pushed up in first world countries, even with trillions of dollars of quantitive easing by central banks [1]. Yes, you can create asset bubbles in the stock market and real estate. But the cost of everything else (besides RE, equities, health care, and education) is going down. The cost of energy will continue to decline, because we are awash in renewable energy, and the collection mechanisms are technology that continues to decline in cost precipitously. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-16/fed-minutes-may-show-battle-lines-hardening-over-soft-inflation https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-16/fed-minut...
baybal2 9y ago
Not entirely sure about that statement. In Russia, they certainly do. A good building is considered one if it has proper thermal design, and definitely commands higher price. In this country, some provinces spend 1/3 of their GDP on energy. Here, buildings with 30cm+ insulation and triple glazed, metalised, air-tight windows are not rare.

by dmm 9y ago

ballenf 9y ago

I'd rather see something like nutrition labels but instead efficiency measures in various areas for new homes before a tax. Having bought a number of homes it's surprisingly painful and infeasible to compare apples-to-apples upfront. "Easy" to get details on a per-house level but just about impossible to filter your search early based on efficiency.

dforrestwilson 9y ago
I built an Energy Star certified home in Georgia for maybe 5% more than the cost would have been otherwise. It's been a great rental since we left the area. Utility bills or estimated utility bills are the clearest way we have found to advertise the value to renters.
pcardoso 9y ago
This is already a thing at least here in Portugal. This is a energy efficiency certificate that is now mandatory when renting and selling a house: http://www.adene.pt/sites/default/files/documentos/certificado_adene_reh.v2.pdf http://www.adene.pt/sites/default/files/documentos/certifica... (PDF)
- ptaipale 9y ago
  All of EU, but in my opinion it's mostly a scam. Companies that perform this certification lobbied to make it mandatory whenever selling a house. However, the certificate does not tell you the real energy consumption. The calculation is based on "weighting factors" for whatever energy production format the politicians want to favor currently, so at least where I live, in Finland - where energy consumption really matters in the winter - when you buy a house, you pay for a certificate that is not very useful, and then you ask the previous owner for the actual energy bills he had, to asses the real cost and consumption. The latter is, of course, what everyone did already before this certificate system. OK, it's just a few hundred euros per sale. A bigger problem in the various energy saving initiatives is that houses built to this code sometimes develop very nasty air quality problems (due to air not changing in some places fast enough, or subtle leakages in the airtight balloon where you live) which then forces costly renovations and in the worst case destroy health.
FidelCashflow 9y ago
A blower door test is a great measure of a homes energy efficiency and it's quite cheap to have done. Not sure if YT links are OK but check out Matt Risinger Blower Door Test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msZ_E-4GFs8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msZ_E-4GFs8
dx034 9y ago
In many parts of Europe (probably all of EU), energy consumption has to be given when renting out or selling homes. Often, they also have to be advertised for public buildings.
sarcher 9y ago
There are a couple of certification programs out there that are well regarded (with vary levels of real-world usage): Energy Star: https://www.energystar.gov/newhomes/ https://www.energystar.gov/newhomes/ Zero Energy Ready Homes: https://energy.gov/eere/buildings/zero-energy-ready-home https://energy.gov/eere/buildings/zero-energy-ready-home Passive House: http://www.phius.org/home-page http://www.phius.org/home-page LEED for Homes: https://www.usgbc.org/cert-guide/homes https://www.usgbc.org/cert-guide/homes And my favorite, the Pretty Good House: http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/guest-blogs/pretty-good-house http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs/dept/guest-blogs/p... Honestly, if you're buying a new home and the builder hasn't ponied up for Energy Star, you've got to wonder where their priorities are - it's not a difficult program to achieve. You can find Energy Star builders here: https://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=new_homes_partners.locator https://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=new_homes_pa... I agree, there is little transparency on the home-buying front, largely because adherence to one of these certifications is still pretty rare. Also, it's rarely taken into account in the appraisal process.
- cyguy 9y ago
  There is also the HERS Index, which is probably the most popular: https://www.resnet.us/hers-index https://www.resnet.us/hers-index. 22% of homes received HERS Index Scores in 2016. It is a simple score that indicates the efficiency of a home. A score of 0 represents Net-Zero, and score of 100 represents a "typical home". If you're buying a home (and you care), you should ask if it has been HERS Rated and to see the HERS Certificate. Source for 22%: http://www.resnet.us/blog/national-renewable-energy-laboratory-research-finds-the-22-of-new-home-completed-in-the-u-s-in-2016-were-hers-rated/ http://www.resnet.us/blog/national-renewable-energy-laborato...
  - sarcher 9y ago
    Nice catch, I should have included the HERS Index. It's a decent standard with wide adoption.

insaneirish 9y ago

> There are so many simple things we can do to make more energy efficient homes but builders and buyers don't care. Here's an article that talks about this unfortunate disconnect: http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2017/04/26/dont-build-better-houses http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2017/04/26/dont-build-better...

justinsb 9y ago

Are there things that can cost-effectively be done in existing houses? That seems a good way to create demand for greater efficiency - demonstrate the value on a smaller scale first.

maxerickson 9y ago
The high impact retrofits are better windows, more insulation and new mechanical systems. Getting insulation into walls is hard and at some point doesn't help a lot if there are air gaps. New mechanical systems aren't really cost effective (because operating costs aren't that high; hundreds of dollars of monthly savings on a $10,000 upgrade). For people that use a lot of cooling replacing an old air conditioner can be a big win.
catawbasam 9y ago
Yes. Low-flow shower-heads can pay for themselves in a few weeks. DIY air-sealing with caulk and sprayfoam will also pay for itself in a few weeks in most old homes. LED lights pay for themselves in a few months if you get a good price on-line or from a home center. Added attic insulation is another thing that will pay for itself in a few months DIY, or a few years if you pay to have it done. BuildItSolar has a slightly dated but still useful section about cutting your energy use in half at: http://builditsolar.com/References/Half/Half.htm http://builditsolar.com/References/Half/Half.htm

damnfine 9y ago

I, like many others, live in an area where there is already roughly enough housing. There is little space to build a new 1 family home, not does it make sense to. If I tore down my current house, It would make economic sense to turn it into a crappy medium rent apartment building. Building a home is already information overload, you need to make it trendy or economical. If it was clear the TCO was lower with this tech, it WILL sell. But buyers are conservative, and for good reason. That new tech is now their 30 year investment.

dublinben 9y ago
It is abundantly clear that the TCO of zero-energy or energy-positive homes is lower than traditional construction. The nearly nonexistent utility costs are immediately apparent. The math will only shift more in their favor as energy costs continue to rise.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  Energy costs won't rise: energy demand growth has halted across the first world (aging population + efficiency gains), and adding renewables each year is going to drive the price of energy down. People should still build energy efficient dwellings, but there is no energy price spike around the corner (for electricity at least). An hour of sunlight on Earth supplies enough energy to power humanity for a year.
  - Retric 9y ago
    Inflation still increases the long term costs. This makes a very important difference when home loans are ~4%.
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      Inflation is not a given. Notice how inflation can't be pushed up in first world countries, even with trillions of dollars of quantitive easing by central banks [1]. Yes, you can create asset bubbles in the stock market and real estate. But the cost of everything else (besides RE, equities, health care, and education) is going down. The cost of energy will continue to decline, because we are awash in renewable energy, and the collection mechanisms are technology that continues to decline in cost precipitously. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-16/fed-minutes-may-show-battle-lines-hardening-over-soft-inflation https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-16/fed-minut...

baybal2 9y ago

Not entirely sure about that statement. In Russia, they certainly do. A good building is considered one if it has proper thermal design, and definitely commands higher price. In this country, some provinces spend 1/3 of their GDP on energy. Here, buildings with 30cm+ insulation and triple glazed, metalised, air-tight windows are not rare.