5 ms·

This partially thanks to Apple, every developer I know using Apple has some issues with OS X quality and/or the increasing price (they already subscribed to the

This partially thanks to Apple, every developer I know using Apple has some issues with OS X quality and/or the increasing price (they already subscribed to the premium idea years ago but the touchbar price boost was a new level of kicker). Strangely I suspect Microsoft may of actually dented some of this, social media around win10 and wsl generally seem positive. Disclaimer bounce: Long time ubuntu user, just listening social media. Also, I'd be interested to know if chromebooks factor into this stat?

Finnucane 9y ago
The statistics here show a noticeable drop for Windows between July and August. It's not clear what these numbers really represent. Chrome might be part of it. Also, the general slowing of the PC market in general. Linux doesn't have to grow very fast if the others are declining. In the future, it will the year of the Linux desktop because no one else will be using desktops.
arca_vorago 9y ago
>social media around win10 and wsl generally seem positive. You must live in a special bubble then, because w10 was so horrible we still hear moaning about it in the sysadmin community. For me, it was the straw that broke the camels back I needed to completely remove myself from MS's horrible, user-patronizing ecosystem. I feel sorry for all the businesses that are trapped in it. I refuse to support it anymore though. My hope is for people that manage friends and family systems to start putting easy linux distros on instead of Windows. The malware ecosystem alone is a good enough reason to do so. As for WSL... I'm just amazed at how many people have forgotten the three E's and the MS of the 90's. MS is not to be trusted.
twiss 9y ago
"Other" is 0.00%, so Chrome OS is highly likely counted as Linux, unless its market share is 0%.
LyndsySimon 9y ago
> Strangely I suspect Microsoft may of actually dented some of this, social media around win10 and wsl generally seem positive. I sit here this morning in a diner, with a Windows 10 tablet hybrid. It's the first Windows machine I've owned in half a decade.
- mark-r 9y ago
  I have a cheap Windows 10 laptop for occasional use when I'm out of town, and I really only use it for browsing. That turd has completely frustrated me with its low resolution and slow response to things that should be instant. Booting seems to take forever for example. I've been researching Chromebooks and this afternoon I'll buy one that will be better in every way and cheaper.
  - LyndsySimon 9y ago
    I settled on a Samsung Galaxy TabPro S. m3/8GB/256GB. I found a refurb for $530 shipped and couldn't be happier with it.
  - ghaff 9y ago
    If I were buying a Chromebook today I'd get either a Samsung Chromebook Pro or an ASUS Chromebook Flip C302CA (probably the latter). I often travel with the smaller Asus Chromebook but it's been in need of a hardware upgrade for a while.
    - mark-r 9y ago
      I looked at those, but my wife thought I was crazy for looking at $400+ Chromebooks when much cheaper ones were available. She was right, as long as I was willing to pass on the convertible form factor. I just picked up the Acer Chromebook 14 from Costco for $260. It has a nice IPS display with decent resolution, and the rest of it looks good as well.
      - ghaff 9y ago
        I don't actually use the convertible form factor on my Asus much--really only when I'm not traveling without a dedicated tablet for some reason. It makes for a somewhat heavy and awkward tablet. I like the specs and looks of those higher-end models but you're right that they're pushing into laptop range with their pricing.
  - closeparen 9y ago
alexanderstears 9y ago
I can only chime in with my anecdote but I started hitting hardware limits on my macbook and I went to shop for a new computer. The cheapest mac that solved my bottleneck (ram) was a $900 Mac Mini but that computer had no upgrade room and I recently got a 4k display and I didn't want to find out whether the Iris graphics were up to the task. I built a badass linux box for $850 - Ryzen 1600, 1050 ti, SSD, 32 gb of ram. It's hard to make an linux to apples comparison because mine is just a desktop and most macs come with displays but the apple premium just wasn't worth it. I had a few issues out of the gate (not getting it running, but installing Nvidia drivers and getting tensorflow to use GPU acceleration) but it was an excellent learning experience and a few hours of time (which was honestly an enjoyable use of time) saved me considerable money over Apple. My desktop is the performance peer of an $2,400 iMac. I'd pay a premium for an Apple but not 3x as much. And I'll probably continue to use a Macbook as a secondary device but when my Macbook fails, it's going to be harder and harder to shell out Macbook money when I know that a used Lenovo with Ubuntu will get the job done.
- hak8or 9y ago
  Any specific reason you used a dedicated eh GPU instead of just the integrated one? Or do ryzen igp's not do too well?
  - ahartmetz 9y ago
    Ryzen plus IGP products are not available yet.
  - alexanderstears 9y ago
    Yeah - training neural networks and running my 4k main monitor. Also, the current Ryzens need dedicated GPUs.
- closeparen 9y ago
  Apple isn't really playing in the desktop market and has been phoning it in with the Mac Mini and Pro for some time. Usually developers talking about Macs are talking about MacBook Pros.
overcast 9y ago
This is entirely due to other devices, like chromebooks being counted in the tally. Linux desktops/laptops are definitely not gaining that much compared to Macs. Outside our little microcosm on HN, the general public isn't leaving their Macs for Linux.
lowbloodsugar 9y ago
My path was windows->linux->mac. I lasted about nine months on linux, and then switch to a mac because it was "a nice nix that works with my phone". My next computer will run linux. My phone doesn't need a computer any more, and my computer needs more than the 16gb of ram that my 2011 MBP and 2016 MBP both max out at.
- Nerdfest 9y ago
  You obviously have an iPhone. Rewarding that platform lock-in would not be my first choice.
tomxor 9y ago
You're not wrong, I am one of those devs. I was always happy to play with other OS, but when it came to desktop - Mac was the obvious choice, and that would still be my choice 10 years ago both because of linux ease-of-entry back then and my skills and patience. After 10.6 I refused to upgrade because of <rant>!@£$%^</rant> and gradually got comfortable with a transition to a minimal tiling based desktop on Linux. Now i'm so much happier, dev is simple and using my computer is so much more relaxing without having to fend off a continuous barrage of "upgrades".
- marssaxman 9y ago
  10.6.8 was the best Mac OS ever. Since then I've felt increasingly uncomfortable with the heavy-handed, paternalistic direction Apple has been taking their OS; it just doesn't feel like home anymore. I believe in personal computers as tools of personal empowerment; it's my machine, not Apple's. I really resent being told what I can and can't do with it, and I neither need nor want an itunes account. I've been using Macs since 1985 and spent the first half of my career developing Mac software exclusively, but I've also been using Linux since... hmm... 1998. Macs always used to come first, but at some point a couple of years ago I noticed that I'd gradually, without really meaning to, started spending virtually all my time in Linux instead. I still have a Mac mini on my desk at home, and it's nice enough, but when it eventually dies I doubt I'll bother to replace it. Everything I want to do works just fine in Linux.
  - tomxor 9y ago
    >Since then I've felt increasingly uncomfortable with the heavy-handed, paternalistic direction Apple has been taking their OS; it just doesn't feel like home anymore I have exactly the same feeling, I also had some fake nostalgic experience with Mac OS Classic / System6 etc (of which my age gives me no right to be). Everything up to and including 10.6.8 for any quirks they may have had, all felt like an OS that the user was truly in charge of, while still having a friendly, slick and minimal UI... But now, instead of using an OS it feels like using a website shop or an iPhone, it feels like the OS is in charge of the user, and users are expected to need to be told what to do. I suppose it's inevitable, Apple aren't really a computer company any more.

Finnucane 9y ago

The statistics here show a noticeable drop for Windows between July and August. It's not clear what these numbers really represent. Chrome might be part of it. Also, the general slowing of the PC market in general. Linux doesn't have to grow very fast if the others are declining. In the future, it will the year of the Linux desktop because no one else will be using desktops.

arca_vorago 9y ago

>social media around win10 and wsl generally seem positive. You must live in a special bubble then, because w10 was so horrible we still hear moaning about it in the sysadmin community. For me, it was the straw that broke the camels back I needed to completely remove myself from MS's horrible, user-patronizing ecosystem. I feel sorry for all the businesses that are trapped in it. I refuse to support it anymore though. My hope is for people that manage friends and family systems to start putting easy linux distros on instead of Windows. The malware ecosystem alone is a good enough reason to do so. As for WSL... I'm just amazed at how many people have forgotten the three E's and the MS of the 90's. MS is not to be trusted.

twiss 9y ago

"Other" is 0.00%, so Chrome OS is highly likely counted as Linux, unless its market share is 0%.

LyndsySimon 9y ago

> Strangely I suspect Microsoft may of actually dented some of this, social media around win10 and wsl generally seem positive. I sit here this morning in a diner, with a Windows 10 tablet hybrid. It's the first Windows machine I've owned in half a decade.

mark-r 9y ago
I have a cheap Windows 10 laptop for occasional use when I'm out of town, and I really only use it for browsing. That turd has completely frustrated me with its low resolution and slow response to things that should be instant. Booting seems to take forever for example. I've been researching Chromebooks and this afternoon I'll buy one that will be better in every way and cheaper.
- LyndsySimon 9y ago
  I settled on a Samsung Galaxy TabPro S. m3/8GB/256GB. I found a refurb for $530 shipped and couldn't be happier with it.
- ghaff 9y ago
  If I were buying a Chromebook today I'd get either a Samsung Chromebook Pro or an ASUS Chromebook Flip C302CA (probably the latter). I often travel with the smaller Asus Chromebook but it's been in need of a hardware upgrade for a while.
  - mark-r 9y ago
    I looked at those, but my wife thought I was crazy for looking at $400+ Chromebooks when much cheaper ones were available. She was right, as long as I was willing to pass on the convertible form factor. I just picked up the Acer Chromebook 14 from Costco for $260. It has a nice IPS display with decent resolution, and the rest of it looks good as well.
    - ghaff 9y ago
      I don't actually use the convertible form factor on my Asus much--really only when I'm not traveling without a dedicated tablet for some reason. It makes for a somewhat heavy and awkward tablet. I like the specs and looks of those higher-end models but you're right that they're pushing into laptop range with their pricing.
- closeparen 9y ago

alexanderstears 9y ago

I can only chime in with my anecdote but I started hitting hardware limits on my macbook and I went to shop for a new computer. The cheapest mac that solved my bottleneck (ram) was a $900 Mac Mini but that computer had no upgrade room and I recently got a 4k display and I didn't want to find out whether the Iris graphics were up to the task. I built a badass linux box for $850 - Ryzen 1600, 1050 ti, SSD, 32 gb of ram. It's hard to make an linux to apples comparison because mine is just a desktop and most macs come with displays but the apple premium just wasn't worth it. I had a few issues out of the gate (not getting it running, but installing Nvidia drivers and getting tensorflow to use GPU acceleration) but it was an excellent learning experience and a few hours of time (which was honestly an enjoyable use of time) saved me considerable money over Apple. My desktop is the performance peer of an $2,400 iMac. I'd pay a premium for an Apple but not 3x as much. And I'll probably continue to use a Macbook as a secondary device but when my Macbook fails, it's going to be harder and harder to shell out Macbook money when I know that a used Lenovo with Ubuntu will get the job done.

hak8or 9y ago
Any specific reason you used a dedicated eh GPU instead of just the integrated one? Or do ryzen igp's not do too well?
- ahartmetz 9y ago
  Ryzen plus IGP products are not available yet.
- alexanderstears 9y ago
  Yeah - training neural networks and running my 4k main monitor. Also, the current Ryzens need dedicated GPUs.
closeparen 9y ago
Apple isn't really playing in the desktop market and has been phoning it in with the Mac Mini and Pro for some time. Usually developers talking about Macs are talking about MacBook Pros.

overcast 9y ago

This is entirely due to other devices, like chromebooks being counted in the tally. Linux desktops/laptops are definitely not gaining that much compared to Macs. Outside our little microcosm on HN, the general public isn't leaving their Macs for Linux.

lowbloodsugar 9y ago

My path was windows->linux->mac. I lasted about nine months on linux, and then switch to a mac because it was "a nice nix that works with my phone". My next computer will run linux. My phone doesn't need a computer any more, and my computer needs more than the 16gb of ram that my 2011 MBP and 2016 MBP both max out at.

Nerdfest 9y ago
You obviously have an iPhone. Rewarding that platform lock-in would not be my first choice.

tomxor 9y ago

You're not wrong, I am one of those devs. I was always happy to play with other OS, but when it came to desktop - Mac was the obvious choice, and that would still be my choice 10 years ago both because of linux ease-of-entry back then and my skills and patience. After 10.6 I refused to upgrade because of <rant>!@£$%^</rant> and gradually got comfortable with a transition to a minimal tiling based desktop on Linux. Now i'm so much happier, dev is simple and using my computer is so much more relaxing without having to fend off a continuous barrage of "upgrades".

marssaxman 9y ago
10.6.8 was the best Mac OS ever. Since then I've felt increasingly uncomfortable with the heavy-handed, paternalistic direction Apple has been taking their OS; it just doesn't feel like home anymore. I believe in personal computers as tools of personal empowerment; it's my machine, not Apple's. I really resent being told what I can and can't do with it, and I neither need nor want an itunes account. I've been using Macs since 1985 and spent the first half of my career developing Mac software exclusively, but I've also been using Linux since... hmm... 1998. Macs always used to come first, but at some point a couple of years ago I noticed that I'd gradually, without really meaning to, started spending virtually all my time in Linux instead. I still have a Mac mini on my desk at home, and it's nice enough, but when it eventually dies I doubt I'll bother to replace it. Everything I want to do works just fine in Linux.
- tomxor 9y ago
  >Since then I've felt increasingly uncomfortable with the heavy-handed, paternalistic direction Apple has been taking their OS; it just doesn't feel like home anymore I have exactly the same feeling, I also had some fake nostalgic experience with Mac OS Classic / System6 etc (of which my age gives me no right to be). Everything up to and including 10.6.8 for any quirks they may have had, all felt like an OS that the user was truly in charge of, while still having a friendly, slick and minimal UI... But now, instead of using an OS it feels like using a website shop or an iPhone, it feels like the OS is in charge of the user, and users are expected to need to be told what to do. I suppose it's inevitable, Apple aren't really a computer company any more.