4 ms·

A really interesting read and imho it's quite relevant to our current times. This is the current political climate in a nutshell: > Dualists in a relativistic

A really interesting read and imho it's quite relevant to our current times. This is the current political climate in a nutshell: > Dualists in a relativistic environment tend to see themselves as surrounded; they become increasingly lonely and alienated. This attitude “requires an equally absolutistic rejection of any ‘establishment’” and “can call forth in its defense hate, projection, and denial of all distinctions but one,” Perry wrote. “The tendency … is toward paranoia.” Reading parts of the manifesto, rambling on about "leftists/collectivists/socialists", also reminded me about rather recent "alt-right" arguments. I guess we humans just prefer our realities to be neatly dualistic or else we might be wasting too much energy actually "thinking" about stuff, what a hassle that would be!

dmix 9y ago
Do you have a links to alt right writings and thought leaders that push forward this view? I hear endlessly about this alt right ideology from the left but I can't seem to find a single person other than a few clearly fringe white nationalists who use this label. I try to follow both left and right, anarchist and libertarian groups, on Twitter and elsewhere quite closely and I've been struggling to connect the breathless warnings of the rise of these groups with any actual data/numbers or any prominent leaders to measure the tangible growth and efficacy of their messaging. In terms of rejection of establishment this can equally be found on the fringes of the left as well. Not to mention 'paranoia' and 'feelings of being surrounded' when I frequently read about the rise of 'Nazis' and fascism which again seems to be limited to a fringe at most, unless one takes seriously the extremely broad group of people who are now given these labels. If anything this election has merely amplified political tribalism fuelled by fantasical images of armies of caricatures of their opponents. The reality seems much more boring and less scary. Especially when one tangibly measures how ineffective any of Trumps more extreme policies have been at becoming reality. Even though Trump won he was still fringe and ridiculed within his own party endlessly, which they were quick to forget out of political expediency. The fact these same people chose him over Hillary in some key rust belt states also doesn't lead me to believe his more extreme views are as popular and widespread as we're lead to believe. If anything it seems like his primary offering was emotional gratification about 'winning' over the other tribe. Therefore I'm extremely wary to buy into these narratives generalizing the 'other' tribes views.
- fusiongyro 9y ago
  It doesn't seem to you like the right is increasingly reliant on shadowy conspiracies to explain events? I haven't heard the phrase "false flag operation" come up except from my infowars friends. A Republican chairman from my state said the violence in Charlottesville was caused by "evil Soros money," which seems to imply a conspiracy to me. Doesn't the whole "fake news" thing strike you as an attempt on the part of the right to brand the entire media a conspiracy, if not journalism itself?
  - dmix 9y ago
    Soros is merely the rights version of how the Koch brothers are behind everything to the left. Sorry I'm struggling to take this as anything new or special with the right in the Fox news/CNN world of US politics. But as I said we're in a new era of extreme political tribalism. What disappointments me is that so many smart people on the left think they are engaging in 'resistance' when they are largely just fueling further tribalism by going deeper down their sides rabbit hole - instead of engaging in rational discourse, focusing on party output instead of tribal wins, and rejecting FUD. I hold the right to a lower standard as I believe most of them are doing it for emotional gratification of trolling the left rather than pursuing some righteous politicial objective, but that still largely creates the same results.
    - fusiongyro 9y ago
      That's a fair point about the Koch brothers. I can't disagree with what you're saying here.
      - mrguyorama 9y ago
        I can. I've never seen people claim that the Koch brothers pay actors to run over counter-protestors
    - freeflight 9y ago
      > What disappointments me is that so many smart people on the left think they are engaging in 'resistance' when they are largely just fueling further tribalism by going deeper down their sides rabbit hole - instead of engaging in rational discourse, focusing on party output instead of tribal wins, and rejecting FUD. Couldn't agree more, I still can't believe "we" actually had to discuss if it's okay to sucker-punch people out of the blue just because of their political beliefs. That was some serious hypocrite BS.

dmix 9y ago

Do you have a links to alt right writings and thought leaders that push forward this view? I hear endlessly about this alt right ideology from the left but I can't seem to find a single person other than a few clearly fringe white nationalists who use this label. I try to follow both left and right, anarchist and libertarian groups, on Twitter and elsewhere quite closely and I've been struggling to connect the breathless warnings of the rise of these groups with any actual data/numbers or any prominent leaders to measure the tangible growth and efficacy of their messaging. In terms of rejection of establishment this can equally be found on the fringes of the left as well. Not to mention 'paranoia' and 'feelings of being surrounded' when I frequently read about the rise of 'Nazis' and fascism which again seems to be limited to a fringe at most, unless one takes seriously the extremely broad group of people who are now given these labels. If anything this election has merely amplified political tribalism fuelled by fantasical images of armies of caricatures of their opponents. The reality seems much more boring and less scary. Especially when one tangibly measures how ineffective any of Trumps more extreme policies have been at becoming reality. Even though Trump won he was still fringe and ridiculed within his own party endlessly, which they were quick to forget out of political expediency. The fact these same people chose him over Hillary in some key rust belt states also doesn't lead me to believe his more extreme views are as popular and widespread as we're lead to believe. If anything it seems like his primary offering was emotional gratification about 'winning' over the other tribe. Therefore I'm extremely wary to buy into these narratives generalizing the 'other' tribes views.

fusiongyro 9y ago
It doesn't seem to you like the right is increasingly reliant on shadowy conspiracies to explain events? I haven't heard the phrase "false flag operation" come up except from my infowars friends. A Republican chairman from my state said the violence in Charlottesville was caused by "evil Soros money," which seems to imply a conspiracy to me. Doesn't the whole "fake news" thing strike you as an attempt on the part of the right to brand the entire media a conspiracy, if not journalism itself?
- dmix 9y ago
  Soros is merely the rights version of how the Koch brothers are behind everything to the left. Sorry I'm struggling to take this as anything new or special with the right in the Fox news/CNN world of US politics. But as I said we're in a new era of extreme political tribalism. What disappointments me is that so many smart people on the left think they are engaging in 'resistance' when they are largely just fueling further tribalism by going deeper down their sides rabbit hole - instead of engaging in rational discourse, focusing on party output instead of tribal wins, and rejecting FUD. I hold the right to a lower standard as I believe most of them are doing it for emotional gratification of trolling the left rather than pursuing some righteous politicial objective, but that still largely creates the same results.
  - fusiongyro 9y ago
    That's a fair point about the Koch brothers. I can't disagree with what you're saying here.
    - mrguyorama 9y ago
      I can. I've never seen people claim that the Koch brothers pay actors to run over counter-protestors
  - freeflight 9y ago
    > What disappointments me is that so many smart people on the left think they are engaging in 'resistance' when they are largely just fueling further tribalism by going deeper down their sides rabbit hole - instead of engaging in rational discourse, focusing on party output instead of tribal wins, and rejecting FUD. Couldn't agree more, I still can't believe "we" actually had to discuss if it's okay to sucker-punch people out of the blue just because of their political beliefs. That was some serious hypocrite BS.