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I'm actually rather surprised that companies like Google aren't offering solutions to integrate ads into the delivery of the page content itself rather than Jav

I'm actually rather surprised that companies like Google aren't offering solutions to integrate ads into the delivery of the page content itself rather than JavaScript at this point, as it's pretty easy to block the specific domains serving ads. It seems relatively straightforward; the ads would be pre-rendered on the server providing the response and could send the same info a script would for the most part, especially if there was an auxiliary script you could load from your own domain. Not that I'm endorsing the idea, it's just that it seems like an obvious solution to the usage of ad blockers.

hobs 9y ago
I was under the impression that while some pure domain blocking occurs, a lot of the rules engines seem to be written against page content that matches specific patterns, not specific domains, so I don't know if it would help serve more ads that much.
hyperbovine 9y ago
You've just described internet advertising circa 1997. Then Google came along...
- LeifCarrotson 9y ago
  Yes, but shortly after Google came along, ad blockers (or simply adding 127.0.0.1 analytics.google.com to your hosts file) also became popular. Why hasn't anyone responded to that?
nathancahill 9y ago
Too easy to fake impressions. And it would break with caching.
mej10 9y ago
There are plenty of ad servers that offer APIs for doing that.
mjevans 9y ago
I suspect the only way ad companies would trust this is if the pages were served from a third party (someone not directly making money off of the ads).
allanbreyes 9y ago
I never quite understood why domain-blocking works so well for ad-blockers. I'm surprised why sites don't just use a reverse proxy or something to serve from those ad domains. What am I missing?
- ghughes 9y ago
  That's exactly what the adtech industry is starting to do. They've even got WordPress and Cloudflare plugins that can dynamically reinsert blocked ads via their proxy.
  - duncan_bayne 9y ago
    Just wait for Bayesian filters that block specific areas of the downloaded content.
    - firebones 9y ago
      Core War, only for adtech. Let the games begin.
    - flukus 9y ago
      Canvas + WebAssembly to the advertisers rescue. You didn't really think this technology was created to make life better for users did you?
  - gradys 9y ago
    Maybe not with the techniques they're using now, but if humans can tell it's an ad, then an ad blocker with say an image recognition model can too.
    - SerLava 9y ago
      Easy- just make ads that humans can't tell are ads. Also helps if you make ads that the FCC can't tell are ads! As they've been doing.... sigh.
maxerickson 9y ago
Blockers already have content rules.
jimktrains2 9y ago
I've thought of a few ways to do this, as you say there are a handful of good ways to do it. My issue has always been that (1) I'm not a good salesman (2) I wouldn't know where to get advertisers. Would love to help build the tech if someone could deal with the business.
4ad 9y ago
> I'm actually rather surprised that companies like Google aren't offering solutions to integrate ads into the delivery of the page content itself rather than JavaScript at this point Isn't that what AMP is?
- nimbix 9y ago
  AMP still requests ads separately from the page and it still loads any ad without objections. It's just that if the ad is also written in AMP and signed by a validation service, it qualifies for faster loading instead of being delayed by at least 2 seconds (or is it more?) after page load and throttled to 1 ad load per second on top of that when there are multiple ad slots.
EGreg 9y ago
Kind of like youtube content creators now put ads in the actual video?
- tomjakubowski 9y ago
  To be clear, it's against YouTube's rules to embed advertiser-supplied content (like a video, image, audio clip, etc.) directly in a YouTube video. YouTubers are free to take money for product placements and endorsements, though, as long as Google is notified. https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/154235?hl=en https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/154235?hl=en
SilasX 9y ago
Doesn't Accelerated Mobile Pages offer something like that? That puts all your content on the Google domain, including the ads (or some version of them, I think?).
- nimbix 9y ago
  AMP ads are still served from other domains; but you have the option of writing them in AMP and having them validated & signed by a service to qualify for faster loading.
wdr1 9y ago
> I'm actually rather surprised that companies like Google aren't offering solutions to integrate ads into the delivery of the page content itself rather than JavaScript at this point, as it's pretty easy to block the specific domains serving ads. You mean native advertising? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_advertising https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_advertising https://developers.google.com/doubleclick-publishers/docs/native https://developers.google.com/doubleclick-publishers/docs/na...

hobs 9y ago

I was under the impression that while some pure domain blocking occurs, a lot of the rules engines seem to be written against page content that matches specific patterns, not specific domains, so I don't know if it would help serve more ads that much.

hyperbovine 9y ago

You've just described internet advertising circa 1997. Then Google came along...

LeifCarrotson 9y ago
Yes, but shortly after Google came along, ad blockers (or simply adding 127.0.0.1 analytics.google.com to your hosts file) also became popular. Why hasn't anyone responded to that?

nathancahill 9y ago

Too easy to fake impressions. And it would break with caching.

mej10 9y ago

There are plenty of ad servers that offer APIs for doing that.

mjevans 9y ago

I suspect the only way ad companies would trust this is if the pages were served from a third party (someone not directly making money off of the ads).

allanbreyes 9y ago

I never quite understood why domain-blocking works so well for ad-blockers. I'm surprised why sites don't just use a reverse proxy or something to serve from those ad domains. What am I missing?

ghughes 9y ago
That's exactly what the adtech industry is starting to do. They've even got WordPress and Cloudflare plugins that can dynamically reinsert blocked ads via their proxy.
- duncan_bayne 9y ago
  Just wait for Bayesian filters that block specific areas of the downloaded content.
  - firebones 9y ago
    Core War, only for adtech. Let the games begin.
  - flukus 9y ago
    Canvas + WebAssembly to the advertisers rescue. You didn't really think this technology was created to make life better for users did you?
- gradys 9y ago
  Maybe not with the techniques they're using now, but if humans can tell it's an ad, then an ad blocker with say an image recognition model can too.
  - SerLava 9y ago
    Easy- just make ads that humans can't tell are ads. Also helps if you make ads that the FCC can't tell are ads! As they've been doing.... sigh.

maxerickson 9y ago

Blockers already have content rules.

jimktrains2 9y ago

I've thought of a few ways to do this, as you say there are a handful of good ways to do it. My issue has always been that (1) I'm not a good salesman (2) I wouldn't know where to get advertisers. Would love to help build the tech if someone could deal with the business.

4ad 9y ago

nimbix 9y ago
AMP still requests ads separately from the page and it still loads any ad without objections. It's just that if the ad is also written in AMP and signed by a validation service, it qualifies for faster loading instead of being delayed by at least 2 seconds (or is it more?) after page load and throttled to 1 ad load per second on top of that when there are multiple ad slots.

EGreg 9y ago

Kind of like youtube content creators now put ads in the actual video?

tomjakubowski 9y ago
To be clear, it's against YouTube's rules to embed advertiser-supplied content (like a video, image, audio clip, etc.) directly in a YouTube video. YouTubers are free to take money for product placements and endorsements, though, as long as Google is notified. https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/154235?hl=en https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/154235?hl=en

SilasX 9y ago

Doesn't Accelerated Mobile Pages offer something like that? That puts all your content on the Google domain, including the ads (or some version of them, I think?).

nimbix 9y ago
AMP ads are still served from other domains; but you have the option of writing them in AMP and having them validated & signed by a service to qualify for faster loading.

wdr1 9y ago

> I'm actually rather surprised that companies like Google aren't offering solutions to integrate ads into the delivery of the page content itself rather than JavaScript at this point, as it's pretty easy to block the specific domains serving ads. You mean native advertising? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_advertising https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_advertising https://developers.google.com/doubleclick-publishers/docs/native https://developers.google.com/doubleclick-publishers/docs/na...