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Noticed that you framed the debate as a zero sum game between "Tesla" and "reason". Doing so diminishes the possibility for an open discussion. Edit: thank yo

Noticed that you framed the debate as a zero sum game between "Tesla" and "reason". Doing so diminishes the possibility for an open discussion. Edit: thank you for updating your post. Your understandable frustration is still clear but now the discussion is much easier.

dmitrygr 9y ago
correct - making people wait for months to get required service is NOT reasonable (And you can make no excuse for it). Other car companies (including those that provide electric cars), do act reasonably in terms of their service capacity matching demand. The fact that Tesla did not plan for this does not make it excusable.
- dmix 9y ago
  The way I see it is that running businesses as complex as building, selling, and servicing a car with many unique innovations (high-end electric-only, charging stations, skipping dealer-only system, presales, iterative features, etc) that they very likely won't get everything right the first time. Particularly the type of things big companies who move slowly do best. You may find that unreasonable, but I believe this is a perspective that drives many poorly thought out regulatory laws which punish experimentation and companies which fail to execute with an (unreasonable) expectation of perfection. Another perspective is that these are growing pains of an immature company that many people took a (known) risk betting on, particularly people from a high-income bracket who could afford their early models. Tesla should certainly be held responsible for their failures so they fix them - not fixing them would be what is unreasonable in my books. There is a popular business concept called 'crossing the chasm' [1] that applies well here. Jumping from startup -> mainstream company is a significant leap which many companies fail to do. Tesla has not yet crossed this market gap and their ability to consistently provide support services such as these, rather than simply an innovative new product that people want, will likely be their primary challenge in the future. [1] https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Crossing_the_Chasm https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Crossing_the_Chasm Edit: I see you've made an edit on the subtext predicting downvotes from Tesla fanboys which I believe was the sentiment OP was referring to
  - dmitrygr 9y ago
    I never said I wish to punish them regulatorily. I disprove of such tactics in general. I said that I (personally) will punish them financially by not buying their products until I can be sure they can provide the level of service that I require.
    - dmix 9y ago
      Then you were likely never an ideal early adopter for their products anyway, which is how they should be perceived if you want to compare them to Chevy and Ford. It may not be polite to say this but it's the reality of business. Tesla's ability to solve this problem will likely be their greatest challenge going forward. They've proven repeatedly that they can get their product and marketing right to get customers. But there's far more to a long-term large scale automobile company than that. I believe the most rational perspective is trying to look at companies in the context of the development stage they are in. Tesla is a bit unique as they went public fast and made big promises, where they come off as a mature company... when they really aren't.
      - reilly3000 9y ago
        It could be solved overnight with a partnership. If the model 3 starts to really eat into mid-price automaker's share they will be clamoring to lock down an exclusive service agreement.
      - FireBeyond 9y ago
        > Then you were likely never an ideal early adopter for their products anyway, which is how they should be perceived if you want to compare them to Chevy and Ford. It may not be polite to say this but it's the reality of business. There's no way to phrase "wait 1+ month for needed, at times limiting, service on a $100,000+ vehicle" as being acceptable in any shape or form, not even "oh well, I guess you're just not an ideal early adopter". Especially as Tesla was claiming their disconnect from the dealership model was a good thing (which I agree upon).
        9y ago
tomcam 9y ago
Not trying to troll or be rude, but I actually can't find any problem with the original post. Could you elucidate?
- praxulus 9y ago
  It originally ended with a line saying something like, "I realize that Tesla is popular and reason is not, so bring on the downvotes" That's basically saying "most of you are unreasonable," which is a pretty dickish way to start a conversation.
  - tomcam 9y ago
    Thank you. I was just dismissing that last sentence without much consideration. I see your point.

dmitrygr 9y ago

correct - making people wait for months to get required service is NOT reasonable (And you can make no excuse for it). Other car companies (including those that provide electric cars), do act reasonably in terms of their service capacity matching demand. The fact that Tesla did not plan for this does not make it excusable.

dmix 9y ago
The way I see it is that running businesses as complex as building, selling, and servicing a car with many unique innovations (high-end electric-only, charging stations, skipping dealer-only system, presales, iterative features, etc) that they very likely won't get everything right the first time. Particularly the type of things big companies who move slowly do best. You may find that unreasonable, but I believe this is a perspective that drives many poorly thought out regulatory laws which punish experimentation and companies which fail to execute with an (unreasonable) expectation of perfection. Another perspective is that these are growing pains of an immature company that many people took a (known) risk betting on, particularly people from a high-income bracket who could afford their early models. Tesla should certainly be held responsible for their failures so they fix them - not fixing them would be what is unreasonable in my books. There is a popular business concept called 'crossing the chasm' [1] that applies well here. Jumping from startup -> mainstream company is a significant leap which many companies fail to do. Tesla has not yet crossed this market gap and their ability to consistently provide support services such as these, rather than simply an innovative new product that people want, will likely be their primary challenge in the future. [1] https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Crossing_the_Chasm https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Crossing_the_Chasm Edit: I see you've made an edit on the subtext predicting downvotes from Tesla fanboys which I believe was the sentiment OP was referring to
- dmitrygr 9y ago
  I never said I wish to punish them regulatorily. I disprove of such tactics in general. I said that I (personally) will punish them financially by not buying their products until I can be sure they can provide the level of service that I require.
  - dmix 9y ago
    Then you were likely never an ideal early adopter for their products anyway, which is how they should be perceived if you want to compare them to Chevy and Ford. It may not be polite to say this but it's the reality of business. Tesla's ability to solve this problem will likely be their greatest challenge going forward. They've proven repeatedly that they can get their product and marketing right to get customers. But there's far more to a long-term large scale automobile company than that. I believe the most rational perspective is trying to look at companies in the context of the development stage they are in. Tesla is a bit unique as they went public fast and made big promises, where they come off as a mature company... when they really aren't.
    - reilly3000 9y ago
      It could be solved overnight with a partnership. If the model 3 starts to really eat into mid-price automaker's share they will be clamoring to lock down an exclusive service agreement.
    - FireBeyond 9y ago
      > Then you were likely never an ideal early adopter for their products anyway, which is how they should be perceived if you want to compare them to Chevy and Ford. It may not be polite to say this but it's the reality of business. There's no way to phrase "wait 1+ month for needed, at times limiting, service on a $100,000+ vehicle" as being acceptable in any shape or form, not even "oh well, I guess you're just not an ideal early adopter". Especially as Tesla was claiming their disconnect from the dealership model was a good thing (which I agree upon).
      - 9y ago

tomcam 9y ago

Not trying to troll or be rude, but I actually can't find any problem with the original post. Could you elucidate?

praxulus 9y ago
It originally ended with a line saying something like, "I realize that Tesla is popular and reason is not, so bring on the downvotes" That's basically saying "most of you are unreasonable," which is a pretty dickish way to start a conversation.
- tomcam 9y ago
  Thank you. I was just dismissing that last sentence without much consideration. I see your point.