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Tesla Model S Hits 300k Miles with less than $11k maintenance costs
- tyrust 9y agoNeat. >During the first 300,000 miles the total combined maintenance and fuel costs of the Tesla Model S were $10,492, with a total of 12 days in the shop. Had this been an Mercedes S class, the scheduled routine maintenance and fuel would have been $86,000 ($52,000 maintenance and $36,000* fuel) with 112 days of servicing, or for a Lincoln Town Car $70k,000 ($28,000 maintenance and $42,000 fuel) with around 100 days of servicing. Not sure why they mention the fuel cost of these cars without citing the electricity cost of the Tesla. It does make the numbers bigger.
- com2kid 9y ago> Not sure why they mention the fuel cost of these cars without citing the electricity cost of the Tesla. It does make the numbers bigger. The article didn't break the fuel number out for the Tesla, but it does state it is included in the total.
- burkaman 9y agoIt says that, but the math doesn't leave any room for fuel. > During the first 300,000 miles the total combined maintenance and fuel costs of the Tesla Model S were $10,492, with a total of 12 days in the shop. Of these costs, $6,900 was scheduled maintenance and $3500 was headlight damage due to driving through deep water. I guess maybe they're including fuel costs in "scheduled maintenance"?
- mod 9y agoMy God, those must be some special headlights. They cost more than any car I've ever owned.
- vonmoltke 9y agoThe headlights in my 2003 Acura CL were $1000 apiece in parts alone (in 2006).
- mikeyouse 9y agoUnfortunately, most new luxury-ish cars come with fancy LED headlight units which cost several thousand dollars to replace. It's no longer a bulb replacement, but essentially replacing a computer attached to digitally directed LED arrays with sensors and gyroscopes to assess lighting conditions and leveling.
- jimktrains2 9y agoThat sounds.... Really complex. What problem is being solved?
- sapienthomo 9y agoSelf-leveling and washing are required by law for lights beyond a certain brightness. Older tech halogen headlights aren't as bright and don't require the fancy actuators and wipers. Brighter lights, of any source, require both.
- thaumasiotes 9y agoSo the problem being solved is "I'd really like to see oncoming traffic go blind and crash as I pass by"? Use dimmer lights.
- bowersbros 9y agoThe problem being solved there is being able to see further in the dark.
- nilkn 9y agoFull dynamic LED headlights are actually a pretty cool innovation. They're brighter, they can illuminate corners, and they can avoid blinding opposing traffic by selectively deactivating or dimming parts of the light field. (I don't know if the Model S specifically has that latter feature though, but it's one of the big selling points of the technology.) Keep in mind that these are high-end luxury cars we're talking about. Folks don't buy a new Mercedes to get halogen headlights. They know it's expensive and are okay with that.
- portman 9y ago> The electric drivetrain, when coupled with a vast supercharging network... I took that to mean that the car exclusively refueled on Superchargers, so the fuel cost was $0. That is a legitimate apples-to-apples comparison to the ICE vehicles.
- vonmoltke 9y agoExclusively refuelled using proprietary infrastructure currently provided by the car's manufacturer is not an apples-to-apples comparison to anything.
- SilasX 9y agoI don't think that's apples-to-apples -- you have to go out of your way to always use a supercharger, so you'd have to account for the value of the time lost in traveling to a supercharger station compared to doing all the same journeys and using nearby gas stations. (Refueling at a supercharger is slower too, so that's extra fillup time.) Alternatively you could use the electricity cost of recharging it at home, plus the cost of the occasional missed journeys that are out of range from not always being full. (Say, book their cost at what you'd pay for an Uber for those legs.) (I don't know if charging a Tesla at home overnight is enough to get to 100% -- anyone know?)
- kbenson 9y agoThis is a comparison of the vehicle for their business, which is a "city mobility service". I imagine any business like this is either going to have on-site fuel, or an agreement with a fuel depot with good rates, and drivers would stop by that location on the way home anyway, so this is probably comparable for this type of service use.
- prostoalex 9y ago> I don't think that's apples-to-apples -- you have to go out of your way to always use a supercharger For average person - yes, Tesloop, however, is Culver City - based, also known as home to the Culver City Supercharger, so there's a bit of a hometown advantage for them. In fact, Tesla's recent penalty fee for hogging a supercharger spot long after the vehicle has finished charging is related to Tesla owners' complaints (on TMC, Twitter and Facebook groups) about Tesloop vehicles parked overnight in Culver City supercharger spots.
- TrainedMonkey 9y agoIncluding time spent refueling (charging for Tesla) would make the comparison more fair.
- hinfaits 9y agoTo me, no part of that article was that surprising (impressive nonetheless) except for the $6500 headlight repair from "driving through deep water". Wonder how exactly that happened, and what damage was caused to the car.
- dmitrygr 9y agoSadly, if you are not a company with a name like Tesloop, but a normal user, the issue is not cost of service but time wasted on waiting for it. Unlike a real car, teslas can only be serviced by tesla...so.... https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldunne/2016/10/31/my-first-annual-tesla-service-inspection-waiting-is-the-hardest-part/#4d44d3cd618d https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldunne/2016/10/31/my-firs... https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/03/07/repairing-my-tesla-model-s-has-been-an-utter-night.aspx https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/03/07/repairing-my-tesla... http://www.autonews.com/article/20161113/RETAIL05/311149995/tesla-owners-plagued-by-service-delays http://www.autonews.com/article/20161113/RETAIL05/311149995/... http://insideevs.com/need-your-tesla-model-s-or-x-serviced-be-prepared-for-a-wait/ http://insideevs.com/need-your-tesla-model-s-or-x-serviced-b... http://autoweek.com/article/tesla/tesla-growing-pains-owners-suffer-long-service-waits http://autoweek.com/article/tesla/tesla-growing-pains-owners... http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1107894_waits-for-tesla-service-get-longer-as-more-electric-cars-are-sold http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1107894_waits-for-tesla-... Oh, and forget doing your own maintenance or buying parts to do so. No such luck - Unlike a real car manufacturer, Tesla won't sell them to you. Want a real electric car with real support? Buy a Chevy Bolt, maybe?
- blktiger 9y agoTesla, Nissan Leaf, or Chevy Bolt - any electric car should have similar benefits in reduced maintenance costs.
- dmitrygr 9y agoYup, and only one of those makes you wait months for maintenance appointments
- toomuchtodo 9y agoI'd still rather buy a Tesla. Edit: look up how many people GM killed with their ignition switch recall (124). I'm not putting my wife and daughter in a legacy automaker vehicle just because those cars get fixed faster https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_ignition_switch_recalls https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_ignition_swit...
- sapienthomo 9y agoSo, did anyone put in their email to get the service records? Please repost. I'm interested in the cost of the tires.
- dsfyu404ed 9y agoA metric fuckton each, four metric fucktons per vehicle. They're special and IIRC have a liner to reduce NVH because that's one of their selling points.
- sapienthomo 9y agoYeah I know how much the tires cost. I want to know how many times they've replaced them because if they drove like me they would have spent all that money and then some, just on the tires. I'm a little skeptical of their total.
- ctdonath 9y agoI just posted about tires. My single data point is that "65,000 mile" tires lasted 17,000 thanks to high torque. Decided to replace those "eco-friendly" tires with "made for EVs" tires which cost substantially more, and I expect would last only a "normal" distance. Between Nissan, the tire manufacturer, and contending the "factory spec" was defective by mis-design & thus at least partially covered under warranty, I managed to get the price way down.
- vvanders 9y agoTotally depends on the wheel type. Our 19" was ~1k for all 4 and lasted ~35k. It's a bit but not as bad as you make it out to be.
- dsfyu404ed 9y agoSo they saved a bunch of money by putting a ton of miles on before age related problems started showing up. In other news the sky is blue. It's component deterioration from age that really gets you on a luxury car. Seat motors fail, wiring harnesses deteriorate, etc. It's also worth mentioning that they didn't crash one. With enough road hours eventually it will happen. The vehicles that can be serviced by a normal shop will be cheaper to repair. The lack of downtime is very impressive but if it's really that much cheaper than running a fleet of town cars then why do they need to twist the numbers?
- danans 9y ago> So they saved a bunch of money by putting a ton of miles on before age related problems started showing up. In other news the sky is blue. Even if that's true the comparison to the maintenance and fuel coats of other similarly driven luxury vehicles is still valid.
- sergers 9y agoExcept the fuel costs. They used subsidized electricity costs through Tesla charging network at 0$ cost. That would be like saying MB giving 0$ gas if u fill up at their designated gas stations. Tesla still comes out on top, but I have never heard of that lengthy repairs for MB. General maintenance a few hours, big issues a few days max. U can take it to any MB dealership or authorized repair shop, or local shop. Courtesy pickup, drop off and or loaner vehicle. Don't even need special status.
- peferron 9y agoIf MB gave gas for free, Tesloop could have removed the fuel costs from the S-Class total. But MB doesn't give gas for free. On the other hand, Tesloop have benefited massively from Tesla's subsidized charging. I'm curious why you think it should be ignored.
- sergers 9y agoFor tesloop specific results, it shouldn't be ignored, but if u are taking the results and applying to general public buying model s today, you only get a estimated 1000 miles of energy for free. There are costs to new general consumer for fuel on Tesla network, no unlimited free charging
- Hasz 9y agoWhat kind of battery lifetime does Tesla expect, and how much charge capacity is actually left after 300k miles?
- foota 9y agoOn the homepage rn: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15144315 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15144315 Upshot, most of it.
- jmcgough 9y agoReminds me of the argument made in https://shift.newco.co/this-is-how-big-oil-will-die-38b843bd4fe0 https://shift.newco.co/this-is-how-big-oil-will-die-38b843bd... a few months ago: Gas powered vehicles require many more (and more complex) parts, which inevitably need to be replaced throughout the lifespan of the car. There's a big incentive for services like lyft, uber, and future autonomous driving companies to move to electric vehicles because they have much fewer moving parts, and therefore are cheaper to maintain on a per-mile basis.
- mmcnl 9y agoThat is a big incentive for everyone who likes money, not only for services like Lyft and Uber.
- Spooky23 9y agoNot terribly impressive to me. I have about $15k in my 2003 Honda Pilot.
- woodandsteel 9y agoThe Model S is a luxury car. A much better comparison to your Pilot will be the Model 3, though of course it will be a good while before we have the long-term data for it.
- Spooky23 9y agoTouché. I forget my friends BMW, which was a real hanger queen.
- tedunangst 9y agoA Mercedes would spend 112 days out of two years in the shop? I know some people with MBs, and they aren't in the shop one day per week...
- dgacmu 9y agoMost normal people dont put 300k miles on their car in two years either. That's ten 30k mile services and probably 20-30 oil changes on a gas car.
- tedunangst 9y agoYeah, though if you're running a car like that, you'd combine services and adjust the schedule a bit. Rotate the tires and change the oil. There are gas vehicles with heavy duty cycles, so it seems a bit apples to oranges to compare to the MB service book for noncommercial consumers.
- giarc 9y agoI imagine the author took all required maintenance and the time required and added it up. I imagine some maintenance can happen concurrently which was not accounted for in the article.
- islanderfun 9y agoInteresting podcast on Tesloop [0]. A youngling like him starting the company with his dad running it. [0] https://gimletmedia.com/episode/tesloop-s02-ep11/ https://gimletmedia.com/episode/tesloop-s02-ep11/
- dkhenry 9y agoI am surprised people are trying to poke holes in this article. You're arguing with data. This isn't an extrapolation or a estimate, this is numbers based on actual use. You can say you don't think it will work like this for you, or you don't think Tesla has good service, but clearly for at least one set of people they are getting a massive ROI by buying Tesla's.
- gigatexal 9y agoMakes sense. Less moving parts means less to break. I like the trend towards (mechanically) simpler vehicles
- mrevolution 9y ago> "the total combined maintenance and fuel costs of the Tesla Model S were $10,492 [...] of these costs, $6,900 was scheduled maintenance and $3500 was headlight damage" So the fuel costs are only $92? (10,492 - 6,900 - 3,500)