4 ms·

Discussion: Add rule against paywalled content to HN Guidelines

36 points by snek 9y ago

I enjoy reading HN, but a lot of links are paywalled, which leaves me frustrated a lot of the time, having to go and find the scoop on another site, which kind of defeats the entire point of HN. This is why I would like to open the topic up to discussion and get some attention around making HN better. -Gus

jamesmp98 9y ago
I like the idea, but might people who have access to the content accidentally forget that others have to pay for it?
smileysteve 9y ago
Nay. The Wall Street Journal and NY Times have garnered great discussion here on technical and business topics.
neilellis 9y ago
Agreed, yay.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
grzm 9y ago
The FAQ is pretty clear on the HN position regarding paywalls: > Are paywalls ok? > It's ok to post stories from sites with paywalls that have workarounds. > In comments, it's ok to ask how to read an article and to help other users do so. But please don't post complaints about paywalls. Those are off topic. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html More description from 'dang. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989 Although it's from a couple of years ago, I haven't seen a moderator make any comment to indicate that this stance has changed. Here's a similar Ask HN from a year ago where 'sctb points back to 'dang's Tell HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12683017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12683017
sboselli 9y ago
Yes, please. It's a two way street, if they want the traffic, open the content. We all know there's clear value to the traffic a well positioned HN post brings.
- Gys 9y ago
  Its a two way street, but I think it works differently: they have good articles because they make the money to create them. So if a paywall works best for them then we have to accept that.
trevyn 9y ago
Yay. They don't deserve the traffic.
ghettoimp 9y ago
It would at least be nice to have a clear tag to indicate that the content you're going to is behind a paywall, e.g., [PAYWALL] I criticized Google. It got me fired. That’s how corporate power works
- grzm 9y ago
  One could argue the clear tag you're asking for is already there in the form of the source that's included with every submission.
Shank 9y ago
I think that even if a policy were implemented that banned paywalls, it would be extremely difficult to enforce. For readers who have subscriptions, it may be non-obvious during submission that it's going to end up paywalled for guests. Some sites have anti-ad-blocking technology, which only have a paywall if adblocked (like The Atlantic). How would these sites be classified? Similarly, does it really count as a paywall if the site has a counter that requires payment after x visits? Some percentage of readers won't hit it, and some will. Keeping track of which sites have these types of soft paywalls might be overly taxing. I think the current stance is fine, just because it's easier for moderation to deal with. Trying to keep a running blacklist or implementing some kind of detector would be difficult. Responding to an article once it's on the front page would be useless, as you'd have discovered it only by trial and error in the first place.
zafiro17 9y ago
I disagree: if it's a site I can't access, that's my problem. I am in favor of more news services instituting paywalls. The problem is related to the failure of advert-driven news sites to survive, and the ongoing advert-blocker warfare. Quality reporting may well need revenue streams that adverts alone can't provide. Therefore, by preferring "free" sites you are biasing away from sites that may have chosen to require payment in order to ensure quality.
Gys 9y ago
I enjoy reading HN too and have no access to any paywalled content. Still, I think the discussion is more important. Therefore people who do have access should have a platform to discuss about subjects. That platform being HN. I would feel more left out if I would miss the discussion completely, because things are discussed elsewhere. We do not need to participate all in every discussion ;-)
- YouKnowBetter 9y ago
  Agree fully to the "I think the discussion is more important". As a matter of fact, I (think) what I read on HN is about 80% of the discussions, and visit a mere 20% of the links. So keep m comming these Paywall links, I care not much about them.

36 points by snek 9y ago

jamesmp98 9y ago

I like the idea, but might people who have access to the content accidentally forget that others have to pay for it?

smileysteve 9y ago

Nay. The Wall Street Journal and NY Times have garnered great discussion here on technical and business topics.

neilellis 9y ago

Agreed, yay.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

grzm 9y ago

The FAQ is pretty clear on the HN position regarding paywalls: > Are paywalls ok? > It's ok to post stories from sites with paywalls that have workarounds. > In comments, it's ok to ask how to read an article and to help other users do so. But please don't post complaints about paywalls. Those are off topic. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html More description from 'dang. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10178989 Although it's from a couple of years ago, I haven't seen a moderator make any comment to indicate that this stance has changed. Here's a similar Ask HN from a year ago where 'sctb points back to 'dang's Tell HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12683017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12683017

sboselli 9y ago

Yes, please. It's a two way street, if they want the traffic, open the content. We all know there's clear value to the traffic a well positioned HN post brings.

Gys 9y ago
Its a two way street, but I think it works differently: they have good articles because they make the money to create them. So if a paywall works best for them then we have to accept that.

trevyn 9y ago

Yay. They don't deserve the traffic.

ghettoimp 9y ago

It would at least be nice to have a clear tag to indicate that the content you're going to is behind a paywall, e.g., [PAYWALL] I criticized Google. It got me fired. That’s how corporate power works

grzm 9y ago
One could argue the clear tag you're asking for is already there in the form of the source that's included with every submission.

Shank 9y ago

I think that even if a policy were implemented that banned paywalls, it would be extremely difficult to enforce. For readers who have subscriptions, it may be non-obvious during submission that it's going to end up paywalled for guests. Some sites have anti-ad-blocking technology, which only have a paywall if adblocked (like The Atlantic). How would these sites be classified? Similarly, does it really count as a paywall if the site has a counter that requires payment after x visits? Some percentage of readers won't hit it, and some will. Keeping track of which sites have these types of soft paywalls might be overly taxing. I think the current stance is fine, just because it's easier for moderation to deal with. Trying to keep a running blacklist or implementing some kind of detector would be difficult. Responding to an article once it's on the front page would be useless, as you'd have discovered it only by trial and error in the first place.

zafiro17 9y ago

I disagree: if it's a site I can't access, that's my problem. I am in favor of more news services instituting paywalls. The problem is related to the failure of advert-driven news sites to survive, and the ongoing advert-blocker warfare. Quality reporting may well need revenue streams that adverts alone can't provide. Therefore, by preferring "free" sites you are biasing away from sites that may have chosen to require payment in order to ensure quality.

Gys 9y ago

I enjoy reading HN too and have no access to any paywalled content. Still, I think the discussion is more important. Therefore people who do have access should have a platform to discuss about subjects. That platform being HN. I would feel more left out if I would miss the discussion completely, because things are discussed elsewhere. We do not need to participate all in every discussion ;-)

YouKnowBetter 9y ago
Agree fully to the "I think the discussion is more important". As a matter of fact, I (think) what I read on HN is about 80% of the discussions, and visit a mere 20% of the links. So keep m comming these Paywall links, I care not much about them.