4 ms·

Of course relationships are a game: two players, several actions available to each player, and payoffs dependent on both players' actions. That is, by definitio

by Rod 16y ago

Of course relationships are a game: two players, several actions available to each player, and payoffs dependent on both players' actions. That is, by definition, a game. But it gets more interesting. Relationships are power games, as the player with the most power will dictate the tempo and pace of the battle. If you have more options and are less invested in the relationship than your significant other, then you have power over her. This power gap translates into luxuries like avoiding visiting her family (too often, at least), or not bothering about remembering her girlfriends' names. Moreover, if she's constantly terrified that you'll leave her if she gets fat, she'll exercize often and stay in shape, so that she can sexually arouse you for years to come, thus disincentivizing you from dumping her. You reciprocate by paying attention to her, by pretending to listen to her illogical / irrational arguments, and by abstaining from (too much) philandering. This balance of terror works great for both parties.

philwelch 16y ago
What you've described may be how your relationships usually go, but it sounds a lot like a living hell to me, and is nothing like my experience.
- Rod 16y ago
  Living hell for her, heaven for you!? Not really. My approach makes her obsession last longer. She never knows when she finally has you, so she keeps fighting to conquer your heart. Since this is a lifetime endeavor (or, perhaps, a death march), then the relationship never gets stale, and she never gets bored with you. Makes marriages last longer, is less traumatic for the kids, and (ultimately) is better for society. PS: next time your s.o. forces you to visit her boring family or some friends of her that you hate, you'll wish you had more power. Enjoy the whipping!!
  - philwelch 16y ago
    Your assumptions about my relationship are pretty deeply unfounded--I've never been forced to visit her family, nor do I hate her friends, nor have I ever been forced to visit them. There's no "whipping" involved--I'm every bit as free as I care to be. It's not a question of power at all--we don't seek power over each other so much as we work hard to keep our autonomy while sharing our lives together. It's difficult, but it's worthwhile as well. Building a strong relationship that respects the freedom of each partner is just as hard as keeping up one side of a power game, but it's more fulfilling in the end. Knowing that someone else truly and deeply loves you is a very comforting feeling, especially when you both know it's mutual. Trying to withhold that satisfaction and make your partner insecure just to keep her (literally) on the treadmill is an asshole thing to do, but ultimately it hurts you too. Winning your power-game style of relationship would be hell to me compared to the relationship I actually have. Look, I'll just address you point-by-point: Moreover, if she's constantly terrified that you'll leave her if she gets fat, she'll exercize often and stay in shape, so that she can sexually arouse you for years to come, thus disincentivizing you from dumping her when she hits the magic 30-year-old mark. Fat girls are underrated in my opinion, but there are plenty of strong women who can and do keep themselves in good shape for their own benefit. Of course, a self-starting woman like that is likely far too strong to put up with the kind of bullshit you're talking about. You reciprocate by paying attention to her, by pretending to listen to her illogical / irrational arguments I would rather not date stupid and irrational women. I prefer women whom I actually like paying attention to. Especially for a lifetime commitment! and by abstaining from (too much) philandering That's not a special favor; that's a basic part of being in a monogamous relationship. If monogamy is boring, have an open relationship and let the girl have some fun too. It might even spice up your sex life to have the odd threesome! The kind of relationship you advocate might be the best you can get--it may be genuinely difficult to have a genuinely good relationship like I'm talking about--but personally speaking, if the best relationship I can get is some adversarial power game, I'd rather go completely without. I have no fear of dying alone--I am comfortable with the notion. My personal suspicion: old married couples who treat their relationship like a power game are not happily married couples--they're like the couple in this story: http://www.violentacres.com/archives/497/happily-ever-after/ http://www.violentacres.com/archives/497/happily-ever-after/ Watching them was like watching a sick, evil little puppet show. He goaded her, she attacked him. He ignored her attacks, she escalated. Within minutes, dinner was ruined. They both looked supremely satisfied with this result. Before I turned to leave, the man reached out with a bony, desperate hand and clutched my arm. “Never, never get married,” he implored. I looked at his wife. Instead of looking offended, her eyes widened in tentative agreement. A slight nod of her head was like the period on the end of his sentence. That couple was trying to save my life."
    - Rod 16y ago
      I am not trying to preach anyone, nor to force anyone to live according to the rules that make sense to me. I will never cease to see any relationship between humans, personal or professional, as a power game. Even if a couple has a deep emotional connection, the one who feels less intensely will have power over the other and be able to dictate the rules. It's the way it is. "I would rather not date stupid and irrational women. I prefer women whom I actually like paying attention to. Especially for a lifetime commitment!" I would rather not date stupid / irrational women, either! But the only women I know who are rational, smart, interesting to talk to are in their mid-30s and looking for a husband and father to their future children. Since I have some scruples left, I don't date women who want a family man, because I can't offer what they're looking for. In any case, I challenge you to find a rational, smart 25 year old woman. You know what they say: you can only understand life looking backwards, but you can only live life looking forwards. You can't have youth and wisdom simultaneously. Pick something in between. It's a delicate tradeoff.
      - btilly 16y ago
        I know lots of counter-examples to your theory. However I'd never be willing to introduce you to them because your theories about how to treat them repulse me.
        deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
        Rod 16y ago
        Good for you!!! Now I will try to pretend that I actually do care about what does repulse an internet stranger I never met and never will meet.
Shorel 16y ago
I do agree about the power games. However, you are not supposed to think rationally about relationships, you have to 'feel' and 'do things right'. Also, I disagree about the 'terror' thing. There are plenty of fish as they say. And it is actually really fun to meet new people.
- Rod 16y ago
  It's fun to meet people, but maintaining functional relationships with people is not about fun. The "balance of terror" thing was meant not too literally. In other words, if one always fears losing the other, then one will invest in the relationship. If there's no fear, then she'll gain 20 pounds and he'll become a lazy, useless slob... and then it's all doomed. There's nothing unconditional in this world, especially when it comes to "love".
  - gruseom 16y ago
    Love begins where power ends.
    - Rod 16y ago
      "LOVE, n. A temporary insanity curable by marriage or by removal of the patient from the influences under which he incurred the disorder. This disease, like caries and many other ailments, is prevalent only among civilized races living under artificial conditions; barbarous nations breathing pure air and eating simple food enjoy immunity from its ravages. It is sometimes fatal, but more frequently to the physician than to the patient." - Ambrose Bierce
  - philwelch 16y ago
    "If there's no fear, then she'll gain 20 pounds and he'll become a lazy, useless slob... and then it's all doomed." If the only thing that keeps someone motivated in life is the fear of dying alone, I'd rather not be involved with that person. In fact, I'd much rather not even know that person.
    - 16y ago

by Rod 16y ago

philwelch 16y ago

What you've described may be how your relationships usually go, but it sounds a lot like a living hell to me, and is nothing like my experience.

Rod 16y ago
Living hell for her, heaven for you!? Not really. My approach makes her obsession last longer. She never knows when she finally has you, so she keeps fighting to conquer your heart. Since this is a lifetime endeavor (or, perhaps, a death march), then the relationship never gets stale, and she never gets bored with you. Makes marriages last longer, is less traumatic for the kids, and (ultimately) is better for society. PS: next time your s.o. forces you to visit her boring family or some friends of her that you hate, you'll wish you had more power. Enjoy the whipping!!
- philwelch 16y ago
  Your assumptions about my relationship are pretty deeply unfounded--I've never been forced to visit her family, nor do I hate her friends, nor have I ever been forced to visit them. There's no "whipping" involved--I'm every bit as free as I care to be. It's not a question of power at all--we don't seek power over each other so much as we work hard to keep our autonomy while sharing our lives together. It's difficult, but it's worthwhile as well. Building a strong relationship that respects the freedom of each partner is just as hard as keeping up one side of a power game, but it's more fulfilling in the end. Knowing that someone else truly and deeply loves you is a very comforting feeling, especially when you both know it's mutual. Trying to withhold that satisfaction and make your partner insecure just to keep her (literally) on the treadmill is an asshole thing to do, but ultimately it hurts you too. Winning your power-game style of relationship would be hell to me compared to the relationship I actually have. Look, I'll just address you point-by-point: Moreover, if she's constantly terrified that you'll leave her if she gets fat, she'll exercize often and stay in shape, so that she can sexually arouse you for years to come, thus disincentivizing you from dumping her when she hits the magic 30-year-old mark. Fat girls are underrated in my opinion, but there are plenty of strong women who can and do keep themselves in good shape for their own benefit. Of course, a self-starting woman like that is likely far too strong to put up with the kind of bullshit you're talking about. You reciprocate by paying attention to her, by pretending to listen to her illogical / irrational arguments I would rather not date stupid and irrational women. I prefer women whom I actually like paying attention to. Especially for a lifetime commitment! and by abstaining from (too much) philandering That's not a special favor; that's a basic part of being in a monogamous relationship. If monogamy is boring, have an open relationship and let the girl have some fun too. It might even spice up your sex life to have the odd threesome! The kind of relationship you advocate might be the best you can get--it may be genuinely difficult to have a genuinely good relationship like I'm talking about--but personally speaking, if the best relationship I can get is some adversarial power game, I'd rather go completely without. I have no fear of dying alone--I am comfortable with the notion. My personal suspicion: old married couples who treat their relationship like a power game are not happily married couples--they're like the couple in this story: http://www.violentacres.com/archives/497/happily-ever-after/ http://www.violentacres.com/archives/497/happily-ever-after/ Watching them was like watching a sick, evil little puppet show. He goaded her, she attacked him. He ignored her attacks, she escalated. Within minutes, dinner was ruined. They both looked supremely satisfied with this result. Before I turned to leave, the man reached out with a bony, desperate hand and clutched my arm. “Never, never get married,” he implored. I looked at his wife. Instead of looking offended, her eyes widened in tentative agreement. A slight nod of her head was like the period on the end of his sentence. That couple was trying to save my life."
  - Rod 16y ago
    I am not trying to preach anyone, nor to force anyone to live according to the rules that make sense to me. I will never cease to see any relationship between humans, personal or professional, as a power game. Even if a couple has a deep emotional connection, the one who feels less intensely will have power over the other and be able to dictate the rules. It's the way it is. "I would rather not date stupid and irrational women. I prefer women whom I actually like paying attention to. Especially for a lifetime commitment!" I would rather not date stupid / irrational women, either! But the only women I know who are rational, smart, interesting to talk to are in their mid-30s and looking for a husband and father to their future children. Since I have some scruples left, I don't date women who want a family man, because I can't offer what they're looking for. In any case, I challenge you to find a rational, smart 25 year old woman. You know what they say: you can only understand life looking backwards, but you can only live life looking forwards. You can't have youth and wisdom simultaneously. Pick something in between. It's a delicate tradeoff.
    - btilly 16y ago
      I know lots of counter-examples to your theory. However I'd never be willing to introduce you to them because your theories about how to treat them repulse me.
      - deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
      - deleted 16y ago
        [deleted]
      - Rod 16y ago
        Good for you!!! Now I will try to pretend that I actually do care about what does repulse an internet stranger I never met and never will meet.

Shorel 16y ago

I do agree about the power games. However, you are not supposed to think rationally about relationships, you have to 'feel' and 'do things right'. Also, I disagree about the 'terror' thing. There are plenty of fish as they say. And it is actually really fun to meet new people.

Rod 16y ago
It's fun to meet people, but maintaining functional relationships with people is not about fun. The "balance of terror" thing was meant not too literally. In other words, if one always fears losing the other, then one will invest in the relationship. If there's no fear, then she'll gain 20 pounds and he'll become a lazy, useless slob... and then it's all doomed. There's nothing unconditional in this world, especially when it comes to "love".
- gruseom 16y ago
  Love begins where power ends.
  - Rod 16y ago
    "LOVE, n. A temporary insanity curable by marriage or by removal of the patient from the influences under which he incurred the disorder. This disease, like caries and many other ailments, is prevalent only among civilized races living under artificial conditions; barbarous nations breathing pure air and eating simple food enjoy immunity from its ravages. It is sometimes fatal, but more frequently to the physician than to the patient." - Ambrose Bierce
- philwelch 16y ago
  "If there's no fear, then she'll gain 20 pounds and he'll become a lazy, useless slob... and then it's all doomed." If the only thing that keeps someone motivated in life is the fear of dying alone, I'd rather not be involved with that person. In fact, I'd much rather not even know that person.
  - 16y ago