4 ms·

Noting that the plans they made were all as a result of having enough advanced warning of the storm to 'bring in big camping backups and setup cots (assume thos

by gist 9y ago

Noting that the plans they made were all as a result of having enough advanced warning of the storm to 'bring in big camping backups and setup cots (assume those were there already?'. I would think that the planning should or would include a case where there is no warning at all. In other words personnel would be required to keep items onsite like hospitals do with crash carts for emergencies maybe storage places or bomb shelter esq. After all if one thing this storm taught (the chemical plant with the generators on the ground) is that you can't really predict the unknown unknowns. It doesn't seem, relative to the cost of space missions, a big deal for each employee to keep onsite (at JSC cost) items that would be needed (including medicine; refreshed as needed) in the event of no ability to plan ahead. My wife works as a doctor at a hospital. I am always amazed at how they make no plans at all in bad weather to have a system in place to make sure she gets to work. It was actually my idea to tell her to buy an SUV so she wouldn't have problems when it snowed. It's literally left to all employees. They don't even have a way to reach her in the case of a mass county wide emergency. For example we don't have a landline and they don't have my cell phone and so on. It's all very ad hoc.

maxerickson 9y ago
For JSC, what sort of event are you imagining where they can't swap out staff, with no warning, but will be able to continue operating? The chemical plant seems to me to be less of thing than the media is making it out to be. They've isolated the peroxides from the rest of the plant and they don't release especially nasty smoke when they burn. It probably costs an awful lot to be prepared to not ever release soot.
rconti 9y ago
It doesn't seem unreasonable to expect employees to be able to figure out their own contingency plans for things that happen commonly. Eg, cars can drive on snow (no, you don't need an SUV, snow tires will suffice, and in flat places you can get away with all seasons just fine). Bus lines typically have snow routes. And so on. So basically the hospital's plan is "hopefully no more than x% of employees will be so thick as to screw up a response to a totally expected event". Similarly, getting ahold of you is not one of their primary concerns. As for how they handle an ACTUAL disaster, I'm not an expert. I do know that public hospitals have plans and standards, but I'm sure it is not the same nationwide. And, at the end of the day, all the planning in the world won't help if the employees simply refuse to show up. Perhaps they plan for the things they know that they can control (eg, infrastructure such as generators and supplies) but not for those they can't? Obviously you wouldn't expect to the hospital to buy everyone motor boats so they can get to work in the event of a flood (for example). If the employees can't drive themselves to work, I'm not sure how to plan around that -- a private transportation service wouldn't work.
toomanybeersies 9y ago
It seems, from reading about the recent attacks in London and Manchester, that it's assumed for a major situation, that most of the staff will hear about the situation through other channels, and make their way to the hospital on their own accord. There's also a very interesting article from Stanford about how they handled their response to the Asiana Airlines crash a few years ago: http://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2013/07/this-is-not-a-test-in-caring-for-airplane-crash-victims-training-and-teamwork-prevailed.html http://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2013/07/this-is-not-a-... Basically, they paged everyone to come in, and roped in everyone who was in the hospital to help out.
- gist 9y ago
  "Pagers" (if you mean that literally) aren't used anymore. The difference between pagers and cell phones is that pagers work practically everywhere and cell phones as you know are spotty. That said I think it depends on the crisis and the community size. Not everyone is even watching the news during the day I remember I heard about 911 as a result of someone making a comment on a group that I followed that was almost quite accidental. Part of the problem with any of this is that disasters aren't that frequent so not much thought is given to a host of 'what if's'.
  - krallja 9y ago
    No, pagers are very much still used by doctors. My wife is a doctor. In both hospital systems she's worked, she has carried an actual physical pager. Sometimes more than one!
    - gist 9y ago
      Same here but my wife doesn't have one where she works.

by gist 9y ago

maxerickson 9y ago

For JSC, what sort of event are you imagining where they can't swap out staff, with no warning, but will be able to continue operating? The chemical plant seems to me to be less of thing than the media is making it out to be. They've isolated the peroxides from the rest of the plant and they don't release especially nasty smoke when they burn. It probably costs an awful lot to be prepared to not ever release soot.

rconti 9y ago

It doesn't seem unreasonable to expect employees to be able to figure out their own contingency plans for things that happen commonly. Eg, cars can drive on snow (no, you don't need an SUV, snow tires will suffice, and in flat places you can get away with all seasons just fine). Bus lines typically have snow routes. And so on. So basically the hospital's plan is "hopefully no more than x% of employees will be so thick as to screw up a response to a totally expected event". Similarly, getting ahold of you is not one of their primary concerns. As for how they handle an ACTUAL disaster, I'm not an expert. I do know that public hospitals have plans and standards, but I'm sure it is not the same nationwide. And, at the end of the day, all the planning in the world won't help if the employees simply refuse to show up. Perhaps they plan for the things they know that they can control (eg, infrastructure such as generators and supplies) but not for those they can't? Obviously you wouldn't expect to the hospital to buy everyone motor boats so they can get to work in the event of a flood (for example). If the employees can't drive themselves to work, I'm not sure how to plan around that -- a private transportation service wouldn't work.

toomanybeersies 9y ago

It seems, from reading about the recent attacks in London and Manchester, that it's assumed for a major situation, that most of the staff will hear about the situation through other channels, and make their way to the hospital on their own accord. There's also a very interesting article from Stanford about how they handled their response to the Asiana Airlines crash a few years ago: http://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2013/07/this-is-not-a-test-in-caring-for-airplane-crash-victims-training-and-teamwork-prevailed.html http://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2013/07/this-is-not-a-... Basically, they paged everyone to come in, and roped in everyone who was in the hospital to help out.

gist 9y ago
"Pagers" (if you mean that literally) aren't used anymore. The difference between pagers and cell phones is that pagers work practically everywhere and cell phones as you know are spotty. That said I think it depends on the crisis and the community size. Not everyone is even watching the news during the day I remember I heard about 911 as a result of someone making a comment on a group that I followed that was almost quite accidental. Part of the problem with any of this is that disasters aren't that frequent so not much thought is given to a host of 'what if's'.
- krallja 9y ago
  No, pagers are very much still used by doctors. My wife is a doctor. In both hospital systems she's worked, she has carried an actual physical pager. Sometimes more than one!
  - gist 9y ago
    Same here but my wife doesn't have one where she works.